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10.03 Gig Report

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
merlin17 said:
Scott Peterson said:
I've tried to keep the same 'spirit' of your preset, but made a lot of very drastic 'simplification' changes.

A) If you want cut live, turn off the reverb. Reverb is nice for recording and for headphones; if you play surf... you need verb. Otherwise? Turn that **** off. It does NOTHING but wash you out in the mix. If you want 'depth' to your tone, use short delays.

B) Your gain staging is all amiss. You cut your amp output volume, but ramped it up in various other places. Unnecessary. I took the filters, the compressor and the gate out of the signal. The gate you could use if that's necessary to you; but it's not helping anything from here (even using my Strat).

C) I reset your 900 back to stock settings and adjusted from there. You had a lot of advanced parameters adjusted, that IMHO, do not need adjusting.

D) I took out your "Air" and "Drive" from your cabinet block. Unnecessary.

E) When you do a parallel routed effect, you need your input gain to 100%, your Mix to 100% and simply adjust your level to add the effect. I have it at -36db right now, adjust to taste.

Adjust the amp EQ as needed; I dropped a Tape Dist drive block after your amp, that seems to bring out the
mids better IMHO. Turn it off if you do not agree.

F) I just realized I might have deleted your pitch block; that was not anything other than a mistake on my part! Sorry!

[attachment=1:2cbdu6kp]MB Crunch 1SP.syx[/attachment:2cbdu6kp]
Ahem, Scott, nice that you reworked my patch, but it wasn't me that asked for help.
Regarding your changes:

A) I have no problem with the reverb
B) IMO my gain staging is ok. The filter is for lead boost only (IA switch), the gate works nicely to quieten the Axe in pauses.
C) Your point with the advanced settings may be true, I built this patch way back and haven't gone through all the parameters yet.
Your amp settings are WAY different than mine, I'm not able to listen to you patch until Wednesday, but I will...
D) I like the Air setting...
E) The delay input is controlled by an expression pedal, therefore the low initial setting. I took out the controller before posting the setting.
I prefer parallel routing in a lot of cases. The mix is set to 100% wet. On delays I like to pedal control the input, not the output, so the output is set high and the input (initially) low.

G) You deleted the filters feeding the cab blocks, that makes them mono...
Peter,

Ahh, no biggie. Sorry if you are insulted or slighted in any way; just different approaches. Nothing personal was intended if you took it that way.
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Thanks for taking the time to look at it, Don.
As I mentioned earlier, this was the patch that I had edited during rehersal and it really went to mush. This is the result, after my mods. (My comments in blue.)

Its changed quite a bit but I will try this patch unadulterated, at our next rehersal and see how it stacks.

cheers.

DonPetersen said:
hmm...

I simplified and edited your patch (attached), try it and see if you like it.

The weird stuff:
- first filter offset too high, not a big issue tho, tastes are different (yep)
- second filter (post amp) set to 'null' and it boosts 2.2 dB - why? use amp level instead, but levels were running pretty high anyway (clipping)(This was to be used as a boost)
- reverb/delay setup, I see what you want to achieve here, (no reverb on delays and no delays on reverb) but the way to set this up is to have a shunt directly to the cab (for the dry signal) and to run the delay and reverb at 100% wet respectively. Control the amount of delay/reverb with the level parameter if you run them in parallel. (otherwise you have a doubling of signal strength - watch your headroom)(noted)
- more highpass filtering - why not lower the bass at the amp instead - it's pretty high (7.2) anyway (This was added to clean the bottom end at rehersal)
my edits:
removed all filters
lowered gain and master, as well as bass
switched to Recto2 cab
added modded tubescreamer before amp (no drive, high level, 36% mix)
added tape drive after cab

I haven't really tested the patch in a band context, but from my experience it should cut through a mix better now.

hope you like it.

dp
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Thanks for taking the time to look at it Scott.

I understand your reference in regards to limiting the use of reverb in live applications and for the most part, I agree however this particular patch was one of the better ones, wrt "cutting thru the mix" so I'm thinking maybe reverb isn't the sole culprit. My approach to setting up patches was to include reverb and use the global settings to adjust it to the particular environment. The rehersal room inparticular is heavily carpeted and quite dead acoustically. I suppose I'm only trying to emulate my current live set-up which seems to work. (If it aint broke... :p )

Your modded patch seems to have lost that "creaminess" that I like and sounds a lot brighter/harsher thru my set-up. Again, its all subjective and I probably wouldnt have dialled up something like that, which may just be the problem. :lol: I will give try it at our next rehersal and come back with comment.

As it is, I'm sure this patch will cut thru but I'm more curious to see how the Recto patch goes.

Just curious to know if I'm the Lone Ranger when it comes to this issue of cutting thru the mix?

Thanks again for everyones help.

Scott Peterson said:
On your Soldano preset:

I blew out a lot of the filters and PEQ, not needed.

I redid your delay as noted above and then reset and reworked your amp block from stock in about 3 minutes.

I changed some of the settings in the tape drives, though they are not necessary, if you like the color than use them. I low passed them a bit.

I changed more, but can't remember. Have a go and see what you think.
[attachment=0:2g2bcxc7]Soldano Crunch SP.syx[/attachment:2g2bcxc7]
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
Tone_Loc said:
Thanks for taking the time to look at it Scott.

I understand your reference in regards to limiting the use of reverb in live applications and for the most part, I agree however this particular patch was one of the better ones, wrt "cutting thru the mix" so I'm thinking maybe reverb isn't the sole culprit. My approach to setting up patches was to include reverb and use the global settings to adjust it to the particular environment. The rehersal room inparticular is heavily carpeted and quite dead acoustically. I suppose I'm only trying to emulate my current live set-up which seems to work. (If it aint broke... :p )

Your modded patch seems to have lost that "creaminess" that I like and sounds a lot brighter/harsher thru my set-up. Again, its all subjective and I probably wouldnt have dialled up something like that, which may just be the problem. :lol: I will give try it at our next rehersal and come back with comment.

As it is, I'm sure this patch will cut thru but I'm more curious to see how the Recto patch goes.

Just curious to know if I'm the Lone Ranger when it comes to this issue of cutting thru the mix?

Thanks again for everyones help.

[quote="Scott Peterson":18j3hcmi]On your Soldano preset:

I blew out a lot of the filters and PEQ, not needed.

I redid your delay as noted above and then reset and reworked your amp block from stock in about 3 minutes.

I changed some of the settings in the tape drives, though they are not necessary, if you like the color than use them. I low passed them a bit.

I changed more, but can't remember. Have a go and see what you think.
[attachment=0:18j3hcmi]Soldano Crunch SP.syx[/attachment:18j3hcmi]
[/quote:18j3hcmi]

It's pretty easy to dial out the brightness to your preference level. Have you ever played through a Soldano? I've played through that preamp (SP-77) and the bigger SLO and the 16 watter (Atomic 16 or something?) in the past.

With those amps, they are bright. Very bright. With a Strat too, it's gonna be bright. Dial the presence down to 3.50 and the treble to 5.00 and go from there. If you want more preamp distortion, turn the preamp drive up, but balance it on that specific amp type (any of the Soldano's) with the MV. I've found on the Axe-FX, the SP-77 Rhy channel is pretty 'gain-shy' and the SLO amp block is a better choice if you want 'creamy'; which isn't an adjective I'd use to describe those amps. "Cutting" and "Sustain" are words I would use.

Are you using a Standard or an Ultra? If you have an Ultra I'd like another pass at your Soldano preset. I have a Multi-Delay block that's very cool if you use tap tempo. I am not sure a Standard has that.
 

Tone_Loc

Member
Scott Peterson said:
[quote="Tone_Loc":1rnrqqv2]Thanks for taking the time to look at it Scott.

I understand your reference in regards to limiting the use of reverb in live applications and for the most part, I agree however this particular patch was one of the better ones, wrt "cutting thru the mix" so I'm thinking maybe reverb isn't the sole culprit. My approach to setting up patches was to include reverb and use the global settings to adjust it to the particular environment. The rehersal room inparticular is heavily carpeted and quite dead acoustically. I suppose I'm only trying to emulate my current live set-up which seems to work. (If it aint broke... :p )

Your modded patch seems to have lost that "creaminess" that I like and sounds a lot brighter/harsher thru my set-up. Again, its all subjective and I probably wouldnt have dialled up something like that, which may just be the problem. :lol: I will give try it at our next rehersal and come back with comment.

As it is, I'm sure this patch will cut thru but I'm more curious to see how the Recto patch goes.

Just curious to know if I'm the Lone Ranger when it comes to this issue of cutting thru the mix?

Thanks again for everyones help.

[quote="Scott Peterson":1rnrqqv2]On your Soldano preset:

I blew out a lot of the filters and PEQ, not needed.

I redid your delay as noted above and then reset and reworked your amp block from stock in about 3 minutes.

I changed some of the settings in the tape drives, though they are not necessary, if you like the color than use them. I low passed them a bit.

I changed more, but can't remember. Have a go and see what you think.
[attachment=0:1rnrqqv2]Soldano Crunch SP.syx[/attachment:1rnrqqv2]
[/quote:1rnrqqv2]

It's pretty easy to dial out the brightness to your preference level. Have you ever played through a Soldano? I've played through that preamp (SP-77) and the bigger SLO and the 16 watter (Atomic 16 or something?) in the past.

With those amps, they are bright. Very bright. With a Strat too, it's gonna be bright. Dial the presence down to 3.50 and the treble to 5.00 and go from there. If you want more preamp distortion, turn the preamp drive up, but balance it on that specific amp type (any of the Soldano's) with the MV. I've found on the Axe-FX, the SP-77 Rhy channel is pretty 'gain-shy' and the SLO amp block is a better choice if you want 'creamy'; which isn't an adjective I'd use to describe those amps. "Cutting" and "Sustain" are words I would use.

Are you using a Standard or an Ultra? If you have an Ultra I'd like another pass at your Soldano preset. I have a Multi-Delay block that's very cool if you use tap tempo. I am not sure a Standard has that.[/quote:1rnrqqv2]

I've got the Ultra, so go for it!

I just ran it thru my monitors at low volumes and it was quite harsh in comparison, so I can imagine how it'd sound at volume. I really want to test these patches as they are and see how it goes. If I tweak them then they'll end up sounding like my original ones!
I'm new to the whole emulater/simulator realm and I've really only got my current rig as a sonic reference. If its simply an issue of adding more brightness to my patches, then so be it however I dont see that as being the common denominator, based on other users patches, so I'm starting to lean towards it being an issue with the way the other instruments are setup(thats right always blame the others :lol: ), considering no one else seems to have any problems cutting thru the mix. Am I expecting too much from the various amp models?
 

Scott Peterson

Global Moderator
Moderator
No, it isn't about adding brightness. It is about 'tuning' that brightness in the proper spots and not obscuring your signal through improper gain staging and use of effects.

Tune the brightness in the amp block to taste. Using that SP-77 amp block might be your issue; note I have the gain boost (a +12db boost!) engaged in that block. That tends to be too much; that specific amp block is not my favorite. Try the SLO amp block instead.

The key is to balance the Master Volume and Preamp Drive first. Then tune it to your taste via the amp controls before you do anything else. Don't worry about advanced settings at first. Go there after you have gotten it 'tuned' into your taste; use the advanced parameters to enhance or deal with whatever is left - lowpass and brightness mostly. I can help you do this, either here in 'forum time' or over the phone in real time.

Let me monkey with it later today (maybe this evening if work gets too loaded up).
 
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