1 amp, 2 cabs. Scenes will only take 4 channels -> Intended behaviour!

musicman0001

musicman0001

Experienced
Hi all,

I'm making a preset for my Marshall Tones, this case some classic rock JCM 800 and certain cabs I like for the sound.
It's a simple preset with 1 amp connected to 2 cabs where I select first all CAB1 and then CAB2 for all 8 presets.

So I started with CAB1 and muted CAB2, but when I unmute CAB 2 for scenes 5 to 8 and mute CAB1 it seems that previous scenes are messed up.
Channels and Mutes are following the previous settings andf when changed I change the previous scenes.

Is this INTENDED behaviour?

1645885173201.png

1645885214424.png


PS:

I have tried to have all CABS the same base (1 JCM 800 standard after reset only have amp input set to 80 and drive to 7
and have all cabs on 53 and all other options standard.

AND:

YES I know I can audition. Also that there is CabLab Lite, etc... The intention is to have a starting template for marshall amps so I can easily change my amp with different cabs so I can quickly choose the best one for that moment. A mix of different cabs working together where I can easily pick out the best option and then tweak some to my liking. This is NOT for recording but FRFR, FOH and HOME testing with backingtracks or spotify.

I tried also BYPASSING but as expected the sound from the amp is coming trough and or the air SET in the cab ROOM AND AIR (when bypassed)..

Should be nice to have the option to MUTE the other CAB instead of bypassing as bypassing gives still lots of noise (as intended). And muting is only possible for 4 scenes.

Maybe I am doing something wrong or this is intended behaviour?
 

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Hi,
I checked out your preset. Thanks for providing it by the way. If I am understanding the issue correctly, (running on virtually no sleep) you'll have to go to the Scene you want, have the Cab blocks in the Bypass state you want, and within said Cab blocks, have the Channel you want and save. I don't see anything in your Preset that is not behaving. I'm sure others with more sleep and stronger coffee will be able to provide a more helpful answer; but based on what I'm looking at, it is behaving as intended. I'd definitely go through each Scene, get it the way you want, then save. Then move on to the next one, just to be sure.
 
I'm sure you know this, but you can have 4 states of each cab saved to channels A-D that can be recalled in any of scenes 1-8. If you change channel A in scene 1, it will be changed for all other scenes as well. So, if you want a different cab state in Scene 2, create that state in channel B and save it to Scene 2 and so on.

You can only have 4 different states per block not a different state for each scene. These "states" are your channels.

Another way to think of it, channels are for establishing block settings and scenes are for recalling a collection of channels.
 
musicman0001 said:
Hi all,

I'm making a preset for my Marshall Tones, this case some classic rock JCM 800 and certain cabs I like for the sound.
It's a simple preset with 1 amp connected to 2 cabs where I select first all CAB1 and then CAB2 for all 8 presets.

So I started with CAB1 and muted CAB2, but when I unmute CAB 2 for scenes 5 to 8 and mute CAB1 it seems that previous scenes are messed up.
Channels and Mutes are following the previous settings andf when changed I change the previous scenes.

Is this INTENDED behaviour?

View attachment 96997

View attachment 96998


PS:

I have tried to have all CABS the same base (1 JCM 800 standard after reset only have amp input set to 80 and drive to 7
and have all cabs on 53 and all other options standard.

AND:

YES I know I can audition. Also that there is CabLab Lite, etc... The intention is to have a starting template for marshall amps so I can easily change my amp with different cabs so I can quickly choose the best one for that moment. A mix of different cabs working together where I can easily pick out the best option and then tweak some to my liking. This is NOT for recording but FRFR, FOH and HOME testing with backingtracks or spotify.

I tried also BYPASSING but as expected the sound from the amp is coming trough and or the air SET in the cab ROOM AND AIR (when bypassed)..

Should be nice to have the option to MUTE the other CAB instead of bypassing as bypassing gives still lots of noise (as intended). And muting is only possible for 4 scenes.

Maybe I am doing something wrong or this is intended behaviour?
Click to expand...
Your screen shots didn’t include all the necessary information but it sounds like you aren’t using the channels correctly. I’d suggest reviewing p. 9 in the manual and then chapter 6.

I’m not at my computer currently but I’ll look at your preset when I get a chance.
 
For this preset i was hoping to have 8 different cab settings. Was hoping that the mute settings where saved by scene.

So its as intended...
Too bad
 
musicman0001 said:
For this preset i was hoping to have 8 different cab settings. Was hoping that the mute settings where saved by scene.

So its as intended...
Too bad
Click to expand...
You could use Scene Controllers plus Channels, assuming the Mute button allows controller assignment... But I'm not sure if it does.
 
If you are using 2 different cabs, you can have 8 different states and just bypass the cab you are not using at the scene level. Bypass settings are saved as part of the scene. Can you design it this way to fit your needs instead of using mute?
 
Thats what I thought, but is NOT the case. I can only use 4 different states of both cabs,
  • 4 channels to access all cabs
  • so also 4 states of all the cabs (not 8)
  • bypassing CAB will cause sound from amp to follow through as does air from the cabs
  • 8 channels is possible if you use also 2 amps and then bypass the AMP
So: scenes are taking the channels settings and the settings are not per scene, but 8 scenes you can only use 4 channels

The behaviour is as INTENDED! as far as I can see the feedback and my own thoughts
 
Yes, that is the case. Each block has 4 channels. The channel selection and bypass state of each block is completely independent of each other. You have 8 different sets of settings using the two cab blocks. Put the two cab blocks in series with bypass mode set to THRU. When using Cab block 1, bypass Cab block 2 and vice versa.

Within each selected channel you have 4 cab slots to use, but the settings of those 4 slots (IR selection, mute, solo, cuts, proximity, etc.) will only apply for the selected channel in that block. If you want to have 8 different cabs across the 8 scenes it should look something like this:

Scene 1, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 2, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 3, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 4, Can Block 1 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 5, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 6, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 7, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 8, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
 
musicman0001 said:
Thats what I thought, but is NOT the case. I can only use 4 different states of both cabs,
  • 4 channels to access all cabs
  • so also 4 states of all the cabs (not 8)
  • bypassing CAB will cause sound from amp to follow through as does air from the cabs
  • 8 channels is possible if you use also 2 amps and then bypass the AMP
So: scenes are taking the channels settings and the settings are not per scene, but 8 scenes you can only use 4 channels

The behaviour is as INTENDED! as far as I can see the feedback and my own thoughts
Click to expand...
4 channels of Cab 1 and 4 channels of Cab 2. You have your 8 cabs for 8 scenes. I do this a lot when auditioning cabs while playing and just switch scenes using a foot switch.

Check the manual or a couple of YouTube videos, seems like your understanding of scenes is not correct.
 
I made this same mistake. Drove me nuts for a while.
Like @mr_fender above shows is how you can do it.
I still do this occasionally and have to remind myself, that's right, it doesn't work that way. It does seem logical though.
 
When you get it working right, save that cab block in the library. I have found that very useful.
Oh, and don't forget when you move from scene 4 to 5 that you select the other cab block to view. I have done this and forgot that I was looking at the wrong cab block and kept switching things back and forth :) It's a learning curve for sure but well worth it.
 
mr_fender said:
Yes, that is the case. Each block has 4 channels. The channel selection and bypass state of each block is completely independent of each other. You have 8 different sets of settings using the two cab blocks. Put the two cab blocks in series with bypass mode set to THRU. When using Cab block 1, bypass Cab block 2 and vice versa.

Within each selected channel you have 4 cab slots to use, but the settings of those 4 slots (IR selection, mute, solo, cuts, proximity, etc.) will only apply for the selected channel in that block. If you want to have 8 different cabs across the 8 scenes it should look something like this:

Scene 1, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 2, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 3, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 4, Can Block 1 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 5, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 6, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 7, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 8, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Click to expand...
That's what I tried, but with one amp it seems that this is not possible. That's why I checked if this is intended.

Bypassing means that the amp sound and/or air still passes through.
 
musicman0001 said:
That's what I tried, but with one amp it seems that this is not possible. That's why I checked if this is intended.

Bypassing means that the amp sound and/or air still passes through.
Click to expand...
Two cab blocks in series, bypass mode set to through, one or the other always on. Amp sound always goes through one or the other of the cab blocks.
 
Last edited:
Dave Merrill said:
Two cab blocks in series, bypass mode set to through, one or the other always on. Amp sound always goes through on or the other of the cab blocks.
Click to expand...
Aah I have to try this. This might work. I made my preset parallel, I guess this way it could work. The only thing I want to check with this solution is the air from the cabs. But for my intent, this might actually work.
 
For those who work with multiple cabs a note: if you bypass the cab the air will still be transferred. So this will be transferred into the sound. And will also transferred to output. Most of the time this is intended, but just be aware as this air will also be in recording.

For all others: Thanks for the reply's, feedback and help. For me the subject is clear and closed!
 
mr_fender said:
Yes, that is the case. Each block has 4 channels. The channel selection and bypass state of each block is completely independent of each other. You have 8 different sets of settings using the two cab blocks. Put the two cab blocks in series with bypass mode set to THRU. When using Cab block 1, bypass Cab block 2 and vice versa.

Within each selected channel you have 4 cab slots to use, but the settings of those 4 slots (IR selection, mute, solo, cuts, proximity, etc.) will only apply for the selected channel in that block. If you want to have 8 different cabs across the 8 scenes it should look something like this:

Scene 1, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 2, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 3, Cab Block 1 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 4, Can Block 1 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 2 bypassed.
Scene 5, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel A, Cab slot 1 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 6, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel B, Cab slot 2 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 7, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel C, Cab slot 3 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Scene 8, Cab Block 2 enabled, Channel D, Cab slot 4 enabled and the other 3 muted, Cab Block 1 bypassed.
Click to expand...
In serie, didn't think of that ;) Thanks!
 
musicman0001 said:
Aah I have to try this. This might work. I made my preset parallel, I guess this way it could work. The only thing I want to check with this solution is the air from the cabs. But for my intent, this might actually work.
Click to expand...
Parallel works too, with bypass mode set to Mute. That should remove the air component I'd think, it would be weird if not. I rarely use Air, so I'm not completely familiar with how it works in all cases.
 
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