06 ms delay trick question

InsideOut

InsideOut

Power User
I've tried this in cab lab 3 with all combinations of processing settings from set to none, MPT, or auto trim. No matter what I do, when I start delaying one of the IR's it just drops the high end like crazy. When I do it in a stereo cab block, .06 sounds great, but in cab lab it sounds like a blanket. Is there a particular setting that allows to replicate this in cab lab? I naturally assume I'm a nugget head and have something set wrong.
 
The difference is that in the stereo block you are processing two cabs (L and R separately) so you get a BIG W I D E sound. In CabLab you are combining (i.e., smashing together) two IR's into a single mono cab so to speak. The first thing to be effected in mono with regards to phase is cancellation of high frequencies which is why it has the less than stellar blanket effect.

In my limited dorkery with the phase I think that .02 is about as high as I go unless I opt for stupid and just go for broke. The graph is your friend as you can see what it is doing as you adjust. I do think that if you mix the relative level of the phase shifted IR fairly low you can make it sound a bit more open, but you still get some cancellation.

It is supposed to simulate a slightly out of phase mix and that's kind of what that sounds like. That's why so many people spend so much time adjusting mics for phase or sliding tracks to get them aligned.
 
You and I have a lot in common shasha. I majored in dorkery in college. Thanks bro. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't just me that was hearing that.
 
As far as I can hear, the 0.06 "trick" doesn't work inside Cab Lab. It should be added in AFTERWARDS in your Cab Block.
 
I believe so. I've read it before and I can't find it now. I'm currently playing with this and getting some great results. What I've found is using two cab blocks allows you to use separate high and low cuts for the delayed ir. This makes all the difference. Every single time I've tried it, the sound has been way better. I like .05 delay for most with cuts around 175/7k. Without adding cuts to one side only many times it does not sound good and in some cases results in a big loss of highs as noted above. The cuts fix this. Im using the same IR in both block. The bummer is it takes two cab blocks. It's too bad the stereo ultra res block does not have separate cut controls. As far as tone I find the asm 12 I'm using has a tendency to sound congested for lack of a better word. This trick seems to add character by removing some freqs.
 
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actually is was 0.08ms. the idea is that you do it in the cab block. both cabs have to be panned to the CENTRE for it to work properly! you're basically shifting the phase slightly to mimic the real-world situation where you might have two mics on a cab at slightly different distances. a good engineer understands the effect of placing two mics at different distances from the cab and would play around with this difference to fine tune the bass and treble response. any value between zero and 0.08 is fine, it just depends on how much attenuation of the treble frequencies you want. in fact you only start to notice a difference when you get above about 0.04ms
it's not about adding extra width. with both cabs panned hard left and right, a difference of 0.08ms would not be noticeable...you need at least 1ms (and you're still in haas territory there)...it's usually 10-12ms to create a false double-tracked effect
 
Tahoebrian5 said:
Can someone point me to the original thread regarding the .06 stereo cab delay?
Click to expand...

It's in the Wiki link below. The original source link doesn't work but the Wiki link has Cliff's original quote and has some other good info below it.

http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/index.php?title=CAB_block#Delay_parameter_in_the_Cabinet_block

Update: The original link to Cliff's post is below but it doesn't work but if you do a search for 91932, you fill find a lot of good posts.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/cliffs-notes/91932-my-secret-realistic-cab-sounds.html
 
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simeon said:
actually is was 0.08ms. the idea is that you do it in the cab block. both cabs have to be panned to the CENTRE for it to work properly! you're basically shifting the phase slightly to mimic the real-world situation where you might have two mics on a cab at slightly different distances. a good engineer understands the effect of placing two mics at different distances from the cab and would play around with this difference to fine tune the bass and treble response. any value between zero and 0.08 is fine, it just depends on how much attenuation of the treble frequencies you want. in fact you only start to notice a difference when you get above about 0.04ms
it's not about adding extra width. with both cabs panned hard left and right, a difference of 0.08ms would not be noticeable...you need at least 1ms (and you're still in haas territory there)...it's usually 10-12ms to create a false double-tracked effect
Click to expand...

If you take the average speed of sound at room temperature to be approximately 1ft per ms, then 0.08 ms works out to be approximately a 1 inch (0.96) difference between the "virtual mics".
 
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