“Rounder” amp to pair with a 5150 Block Letter?

Dolphinado

Dolphinado

Inspired
I’ve been slowly losing my mind trying to find an amp model for a lead guitar** tone that complements my rhythm guitar tone well. 🙃

Here’s what I’ve got going on for rhythm:

5150 Block Letter > Mesa 4x12 Recto Standard OS (one of the newer York Audio Mesa cab mixes)

It’s a uh, pretty “pointy”, fizzy, aggressive rhythm tone, and I want something for lead that will more or less fill in the gaps that the 5150 leaves. I was thinking something more “rounded”, more Marshall-y maybe. The problem is, I haven’t found it yet. So far, the sounds I’ve found are either too similar to the 5150 once dialed in, or so different that they sound like they don’t belong, or else they work for single note lines but not palm muted lines, or else it’s impossible to give them enough gain without everything going flubby. I’m sure I’m not dialing in some of these amp models right, but 🤷🏽‍♂️

Here’s what I’ve tried so far off the top of my head (using the same IR as the rhythm track):
  • Friedman HBE 2018 / V1 / V2
  • Atomica High
  • Marshall JVM410
  • Orange Rockerverb 50
  • Mesa Mark IV
  • Diezel VH4 (Silver, Ch 3 and Ch 4)
With many input boost models too, as well as straight into the amp.

Any suggestions on what to try next? Maybe I should try a different IR from the same pack?

(I’ll try to post a clip so you can hear what I’ve got going on for rhythm guitar / the rest of the mix right now when I get back to my computer)

———
**(I think I’ve realized that my take on what lead guitar means is not what most of the guitar world means 😅 - I mean a guitar doing melodic lines over a rhythm track throughout a song, and not a track that busts out a guitar solo in a section or two only to go back to doubling a riff or doing nothing in between.)
 
Dolphinado said:
I’ve been slowly losing my mind trying to find an amp model for a lead guitar** tone that complements my rhythm guitar tone well. 🙃

Here’s what I’ve got going on for rhythm:

5150 Block Letter > Mesa 4x12 Recto Standard OS (one of the newer York Audio Mesa cab mixes)

It’s a uh, pretty “pointy”, fizzy, aggressive rhythm tone, and I want something for lead that will more or less fill in the gaps that the 5150 leaves. I was thinking something more “rounded”, more Marshall-y maybe. The problem is, I haven’t found it yet. So far, the sounds I’ve found are either too similar to the 5150 once dialed in, or so different that they sound like they don’t belong, or else they work for single note lines but not palm muted lines, or else it’s impossible to give them enough gain without everything going flubby. I’m sure I’m not dialing in some of these amp models right, but 🤷🏽‍♂️

Here’s what I’ve tried so far off the top of my head (using the same IR as the rhythm track):
  • Friedman HBE 2018 / V1 / V2
  • Atomica High
  • Marshall JVM410
  • Orange Rockerverb 50
  • Mesa Mark IV
  • Diezel VH4 (Silver, Ch 3 and Ch 4)
With many input boost models too, as well as straight into the amp.

Any suggestions on what to try next? Maybe I should try a different IR from the same pack?

(I’ll try to post a clip so you can hear what I’ve got going on for rhythm guitar / the rest of the mix right now when I get back to my computer)

———
**(I think I’ve realized that my take on what lead guitar means is not what most of the guitar world means 😅 - I mean a guitar doing melodic lines over a rhythm track throughout a song, and not a track that busts out a guitar solo in a section or two only to go back to doubling a riff or doing nothing in between.)
Click to expand...

it wont be easy as the 5150 covers a lot of sonic space
i would say Mesa JP2C yellow maybe
use less gain different IR maybe the York Trad pack then just eq it to sit
where you need it too
 
Have you tried the 5150 II aka 6505+ model? I really love that for for lead tones. It isnt as dry as the block letter and is also similar enough to your current one.
 
Recto. 5150 is already pretty modded marshall.

Also the fizziness disappears in a band mix.

Me personally, I would just use the 5150 for leads with a little less treble, reverb and delay.
 
Budda said:
Recto. 5150 is already pretty modded marshall.

Also the fizziness disappears in a band mix.

Me personally, I would just use the 5150 for leads with a little less treble, reverb and delay.
Click to expand...

I wish I could make the Recto work, but it just doesn’t seem to pair well with my guitar for whatever reason (it’s a PRS CE 24 Semi-Hollow) - I think the conclusion I’ve come to is that my guitar just generates a hilarious amount of low end, which is a pretty bad match for an amp like the Recto. I think also the Recto’s fizziness makes it a little too close to the 5150 - it would be great if I was doubling a part, but I’m looking for more contrast.

Like, to give you an idea, I have one section where rhythm and lead trade off a riff with each other (panned left, then right), before harmonizing together, so the tones have to sound pretty distinct - otherwise, it just sounds like I took a single guitar track and set up automation to pan it left and right, which kinda ruins the effect I’m going for.
 
LucasLeCompte said:
Have you tried the 5150 II aka 6505+ model? I really love that for for lead tones. It isnt as dry as the block letter and is also similar enough to your current one.
Click to expand...
Not yet, I’ll give it a shot! It might turn out to be too similar (I’m looking for very noticeable contrast), but it’s worth a try
 
I'd give one of the Plexi's a try, or the Atomica. The 1970 Plexi is a little hotter. Paired with a standard T808 Drive boost with the level around 7ish, you'll have a tasty lead sound. There's a reason the plexi amps are some of the most sought after amps.
 
Carol Ann OD2 & if ya want some thick mids pair pair up pretty much anything with Cliffs Rumble EV12L cab or mix it in a bit with your favorite cab. Personally I like it with the M160 mic.
The Herbert is another killer amp to try.
 
Dolphinado said:
I wish I could make the Recto work, but it just doesn’t seem to pair well with my guitar for whatever reason (it’s a PRS CE 24 Semi-Hollow) - I think the conclusion I’ve come to is that my guitar just generates a hilarious amount of low end, which is a pretty bad match for an amp like the Recto. I think also the Recto’s fizziness makes it a little too close to the 5150 - it would be great if I was doubling a part, but I’m looking for more contrast.

Like, to give you an idea, I have one section where rhythm and lead trade off a riff with each other (panned left, then right), before harmonizing together, so the tones have to sound pretty distinct - otherwise, it just sounds like I took a single guitar track and set up automation to pan it left and right, which kinda ruins the effect I’m going for.
Click to expand...

Rectos are not like 5150s which is why they blend well. It could be that you're dialling them in the same though.

If you guitar has too much low end, just EQ it? Fizz is how amps sit in the mix. If nothing is working, get a second guitar.
 
Budda said:
If you guitar has too much low end, just EQ it?
Click to expand...

Yeah AMP input EQ page or use a filter up front.

To reduce fizz on any amp, besides pres/treb/bright, try playing with:
Power Amp page: Power Tube Bias, Negative Feedback, Transformer Match​
Adv/Dyn page: Cathode Follower Harmonics / Hardness​
 
Randalljax said:
it wont be easy as the 5150 covers a lot of sonic space
i would say Mesa JP2C yellow maybe
use less gain different IR maybe the York Trad pack then just eq it to sit
where you need it too
Click to expand...

Whoa, I really wasn't expecting it, but both the JP2C and the Mark IIC++ actually... kinda work for this song?? 😱They're both capable of pretty much exactly what I was trying to find with the right tweaking - something smoother and fatter than the 5150, but with enough gain and articulation to get satisfying palm mutes on high-ish lead lines. It's pretty weird, I feel like I've come full circle with my guitar tone journey haha - the last time I went amp shopping ~8 years ago, I went in thinking I wanted something Marshally, and ended up on the Mesa-y side of the fence.

But yeah, that's a really good point about the 5150 - it occupies so much sonic space that it's hard to pair it with something that won't clash in some way. I guess that's why I liked it so much for rhythm though, whoops.

Budda said:
Rectos are not like 5150s which is why they blend well. It could be that you're dialling them in the same though.

If you guitar has too much low end, just EQ it? Fizz is how amps sit in the mix. If nothing is working, get a second guitar.
Click to expand...

I think you're right - I went through a bunch of other suggestions in this thread sort of in the Marshall circuit lineage (Plexi 1970, Atomica High again, the Satriani signature models, JCM800, Soldano SLO100) and the Recto, and somehow I managed to make them all sound a lot like the 5150 when I was done dialing them in - whoooops. I guess I have a "sound" haha - interestingly though I only managed that with Marshall-ish amps – more Fender-ish amps I wasn't able to butcher into a 5150 so easily.
 
Maybe you just need a different set of IRs.

Also, maybe it's how you're dialing the amps in. Try dialing an amp in differently and see if it's complimentary to your main rhythm sound.
 
I thiiink I figured out the real issue - I have the 5150 rhythm track dialed in with waaay too much gain. 🙃 So much gain that few other amps can keep up on leads without seriously compromising the tone in some way, or pretty much turning into the 5150. Whoops.
 
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