Tired of band discussions about my git sound

J

Jens973

Inspired
Hi all,

I am using modellers since years - from Pod II, X3 to AX8 and now FM3. I am playing in a classic rock cover band, very old school and so the band members are (less me ;-) ). Yesterday we had again discussion, bandmates complain that my sound is not "cool", has no "punch" and is even too thin to start songs like "Highway to hell". To be honest I am tired of that kind of discussion and I am wondering if they are right or just deaf. Btw. my sound is always compared to the one from our other guitarist playing an Engl 120W Head with 2x12 Engl cabinet. I play through a Dynacord AXM12A and through PA Yamaha DXR Stuff 2x15" + 2x12" and a Behringer XR18 console.

I attached the preset that I am currently using, would be great to get some opinions here. AC/DC for example I play with Scene 2 plus overdrive activated.

Thanks so much in advance !
 

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  • Gig - Preset 5.syx
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I'm not familiar with your monitor setup, so I don't think I can comment on how you really sound compared to that Engl amp, but one thing I've recently started using, that just brings out some serious balls to my tone, is the Preamp in the Cab Block. I just pick one that I like, and dial in a little Drive, then BMT to taste. It really fattens things up, as far as what I'm hearing.
 
Are you micing the other guitar players rig at live shows, or are you all relying on the sound of your cabs on stage?

There are plenty of threads here already exploring ways to get an FRFR to sound more like an amp in the room. Try set the high cut in your preset a lot lower, say 5-6k.

IMO the easiest way to get the "amp in the room" sound is to get a power amp and guitar cab. Perhaps try your FM3 (with cab sims disabled) into the fx return of the ENGL rig and see how your band mates like that?

In situations like that it's often a trade off between "spend time and energy explaining how & why I use my rig" and "spend some money and energy adjusting my rig to keep everyone else happy".
 
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What also give a good thumb to sound is to choose a good fitting IR and dial in mic-spacing/distance up to 1-3 in CAB block.
The higher the value the nearer is the mic to the speaker.
Makes a big difference without changing something on AMP block.
 
Your mates should listen the band from the audience and pay attention to how the guitars fit at the PA mix.

Maybe they should critizise the guy with the insanely loud amp instead of the ear-friendly FRFR setup. Do they want to enjoy the guitar blast at their pants at the rehearsals (and risk some tinnitus or hearing loss) or do they want the band to sound ballanced and under control?
 
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Tried your preset.

The cab preamp is of no use here. You're competing with a powerful traditional guitar cab in the room. That's not something you're going to solve easily.

You are using a user cab, so we can't test / get the exact sound you have.

You have chosen one of the brightest Amp types in the unit without bottom end: the AFS. And you've increased Treble. Don't know what guitar you are using, but if you are using a Strat, that must be very harsh through FRFR.
Also because you are not applying High Cut in the Cab block. And the Tube Drive drive block, with Tone turned up, only increases that brightness more.

So I would do the following:

AMP:
Change your amp type to another less-bright Marshall with more bottom end.
Change Speaker Compression back to default.
If you're playing your FRFR system really loud with the band, set Output Mode in the Amp block to "SS PA + Cab" instead of "FRFR".

CAB:
Make sure you're using the right IR for the task.
Change High Cut in the Cab block to 5500 Hz. That will sound dull at home but makes you cut through better in the band.
Change AIR and ROOM LEVEL in the Cab block to zero.
Play with Proximity in the Cab block to add bottom-end thump, and make sure you're not cutting bass on your FRFR system.
 
yek said:
You have chosen one of the brightest Amp types in the unit without bottom end: the AFS. And you've increased Treble. Don't know what guitar you are using, but if you are using a Strat, that must be very harsh through FRFR.
Click to expand...
I am playing a PRS S2 Single Cut with 2 HB.
yek said:
Also because you are not applying High Cut in the Cab block. And the Tube Drive drive block, with Tone turned up, only increases that brightness more.
Click to expand...
The cab block has set the high cut to 7kHz
1656575935434.png
yek said:
If you're playing your FRFR system really loud with the band, set Output Mode in the Amp block to "SS PA + Cab" instead of "FRFR".
Click to expand...
What does this do exactly? I've never seen that before ...
yek said:
CAB:
Make sure you're using the right IR for the task.
Change High Cut in the Cab block to 5500 Hz. That will sound dull at home but makes you cut through better in the band.
Change AIR and ROOM LEVEL in the Cab block to zero.
Play with Proximity in the Cab block to add bottom-end thump, and make sure you're not cutting bass on your FRFR system.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much - I will check out all these settings !
 
2112 said:
Are you micing the other guitar players rig at live shows, or are you all relying on the sound of your cabs on stage?
Click to expand...
All mic'd up even at rehearsal - imagine the volume ...
2112 said:
In situations like that it's often a trade off between "spend time and energy explaining how & why I use my rig" and "spend some money and energy adjusting my rig to keep everyone else happy".
Click to expand...
So true, I've been thinking about that many times to just buy power amp + speaker and to make them shut up.
 
The competition with a real amp and cabinet is a complete PITA. As Leon said an SS or tube amp and a real cabinet is the only thing that's going to get you closer to the band mates sound. Sure you can try High and low cuts and boost Mids you may get closer. I went through the same exact issue for 3 years playing in a band, not so much others complained as I wasn't happy with the live sound. 100 foot from stage its real evident how PA type FRFR speakers push sound and at what frequencies compared to a guitar cabinet, not talking about anything to do with PA just his speakers compared to yours. I've owned/own a lot of the FRFR solutions people use here and none of them sound or react like an amp and cabinet and to be honest I'm glad they don't. My goal is to sound right through FOH. Either you're going to conform to him or he's going to buy a fractal.

Just my 2¢.
 
Tom Morris said:
My goal is to sound right through FOH. Either you're going to conform to him or he's going to buy a fractal.

Just my 2¢.
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This is exactly my goal aswell ! But how I can make sure to sound great through FOH? How to know how my sound translate to a PA System? And even more difficult standing on stage and not FOH how to make the correct adjustments?
 
Jens973 said:
This is exactly my goal aswell ! But how I can make sure to sound great through FOH? How to know how my sound translate to a PA System? And even more difficult standing on stage and not FOH how to make the correct adjustments?
Click to expand...
Do you have decent reference monitors at home? You can record your guitar over a backing track and reamp. A tone that sounds good at the DAW mix has many chances of translating right to the PA (as far as the other instruments are equally balanced)
 
Piing said:
Do you have decent reference monitors at home? You can record your guitar over a backing track and reamp. A tone that sounds good at the DAW mix has many chances of translating right to the PA (as far as the other instruments are equally balanced)
Click to expand...
At home I am using a pair of JBL LSR-305
 
Controversial topic:

Remove the amp and cab, and just use a Drive or TWO drives.

That can also make your sound "be present" or "hit."
 
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Even more controversial is to just "remove the cab" which is what to me, made it feel more "in the room."

Actually it made it feel TOTALLY in the room.
 
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