Just Saw Diesel @ $6/gallon!!! WTF!!

levipeto said:
"Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, study says".
https://www.theguardian.com/sustain...-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change
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I'm not sure how to interpret your reply, but yeah, we need to stop using fossil fuels.

While the fossil fuel industry are definitely the baddies here (for example funding disinformation about the effects of using fossil fuels), citing them as the exclusive problem is kinda like saying the reason there are so many fat people around is because there's a candy store nearby. We all need to make moves away from using the products that are causing damage, and try to help make the case for doing so, as I'm doing now. We need to put them out of business, but that won't ever happen as long as we keep buying their product and don't look for and implement at alternatives.
 
Tannhauser said:
I'm not sure how to interpret your reply, but yeah, we need to stop using fossil fuels.

While the fossil fuel industry are definitely the baddies here (for example funding disinformation about the effects of using fossil fuels), citing them as the exclusive problem is kinda like saying the reason there are so many fat people around is because there's a candy store nearby. We all need to make moves away from using the products that are causing damage, and try to help make the case for doing so, as I'm doing now. We need to put them out of business, but that won't ever happen as long as we keep buying their product and don't look for and implement at alternatives.
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The biggest problem is that there currently is no practical alternative to fossil fuels. The process of acquiring the minerals needed to produce batteries isn’t exactly environmentally friendly, the disposal of spent batteries is likewise far from green. And that’s just for personal vehicles. The trucks, trains, and ships that keep everything going don’t have many options for alternative power yet.
 
Frodebro said:
The biggest problem is that there currently is no practical alternative to fossil fuels. The process of acquiring the minerals needed to produce batteries isn’t exactly environmentally friendly, the disposal of spent batteries is likewise far from green. And that’s just for personal vehicles. The trucks, trains, and ships that keep everything going don’t have many options for alternative power yet.
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I agree with you, but the problem is that things are already getting out of control, more people need to both realise this and stand up for change. Just continuing as we are is a death sentence. Change and innovation are possible.
 
And here in little old England the price of diesel equates to $10 a gallon.
Certainly reduces the unnecessary mileage I do, which when you think about it is actually a good thing.
 
They are talking about diesel rationing this summer. Powers that be are really sticking it to us.

I have a friend that works in an oil refinery in Denver. He’s been saying for years that big oil has been keeping prices high by limiting production capacity and then blaming it on supply costs. No new refineries have been built in America since the ‘70s.

He also told me how a refinery can change the percentages of each product that comes out of each barrel of oil.

They sell the Sulphur to make matches, asphalts and plastics from the heavy end all the way up through kerosene, diesel, gasoline, jet fuel, butanes etc.

All this comes from each barrel of oil and they can change the percentage of each product except the Sulphur by the way they crack it. If they want more gas per barrel it come at the expense of less of the other products.

If there is a diesel shortage it’s because they are making an obscene amount of money by intentionally producing less.
 
Frodebro said:
The biggest problem is that there currently is no practical alternative to fossil fuels. The process of acquiring the minerals needed to produce batteries isn’t exactly environmentally friendly, the disposal of spent batteries is likewise far from green. And that’s just for personal vehicles. The trucks, trains, and ships that keep everything going don’t have many options for alternative power yet.
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This is so true. There is an underbelly to going "green" (especially when it comes to "electric") that
not a lot of people understand. From the horrific conditions and violent scenarios in places like the
Congo, to how the myth of "clean" energy prevents people from taking a long, hard look at their
own habits and tendencies to indulge and consume regardless of the source of energy being used
to do so.

This is great book on the topic.

91ImSAg6sfL.jpg



That said, I think we need to promote good steps even if they are
not perfect steps. We are all definitely in between a collective rock and an hard place when it comes
to "energy." It's the source of wars and massive profits, and also, potentially, our own demise.
 
la szum said:
This is so true. There is an underbelly to going "green" (especially when it comes to "electric") that
not a lot of people understand. From the horrific conditions and violent scenarios in places like the
Congo, to how the myth of "clean" energy prevents people from taking a long, hard look at their
own habits and tendencies to indulge and consume regardless of the source of energy being used
to do so.

This is great book on the topic.

91ImSAg6sfL.jpg



That said, I think we need to promote good steps even if they are
not perfect steps. We are all definitely in between a collective rock and an hard place when it comes
to "energy." It's the source of wars and massive profits, and also, potentially, our own demise.
Click to expand...

We absolutely do need to start working harder to develop an energy source that truly is cleaner than fossil fuels, but with the understanding that no matter what comes along there will need to be compromises to balance “green” and “affordable.” The hardcore environmental cheerleaders don’t seem to be willing to compromise at all, yet they also don’t have any realistic solutions to the problem.

Keep in mind that the cost of fossil fuels has a direct impact on the cost of everything else in our lives, so it may be easy to say “Hey, I can just drive less and things will work out,” but that doesn’t help the increasing cost of food and consumer goods. You can sell your car and walk everywhere , but you still have to eat.
 
Frodebro said:
We absolutely do need to start working harder to develop an energy source that truly is cleaner than fossil fuels, but with the understanding that no matter what comes along there will need to be compromises to balance “green” and “affordable.” The hardcore environmental cheerleaders don’t seem to be willing to compromise at all, yet they also don’t have any realistic solutions to the problem.

Keep in mind that the cost of fossil fuels has a direct impact on the cost of everything else in our lives, so it may be easy to say “Hey, I can just drive less and things will work out,” but that doesn’t help the increasing cost of food and consumer goods. You can sell your car and walk everywhere , but you still have to eat.
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This is the problem really, the dire situation hasn't been properly communicated, because people still think that reducing the amount of miles driven will be enough to prevent catastrophe.
 
Xrocker said:
They are talking about diesel rationing this summer. Powers that be are really sticking it to us.

I have a friend that works in an oil refinery in Denver. He’s been saying for years that big oil has been keeping prices high by limiting production capacity and then blaming it on supply costs. No new refineries have been built in America since the ‘70s.

He also told me how a refinery can change the percentages of each product that comes out of each barrel of oil.

They sell the Sulphur to make matches, asphalts and plastics from the heavy end all the way up through kerosene, diesel, gasoline, jet fuel, butanes etc.

All this comes from each barrel of oil and they can change the percentage of each product except the Sulphur by the way they crack it. If they want more gas per barrel it come at the expense of less of the other products.

If there is a diesel shortage it’s because they are making an obscene amount of money by intentionally producing less.
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Not true.

Google "ExxonMobil BLADE expansion" or "Valero Port Arthur Expansion" or "Motiva Port Arthur expansion" or any other refiner for that matter.

They aren't building "new" refineries because they can just expand their current operation at already up and running facilities. The Exxon expansion above will make it the largest in North America. Primarily a diesel production unit at that. These places need waterfront access to make major moves, as pipeline is only able to transport one grade of cargo at a time.
 
Tannhauser said:
This is the problem really, the dire situation hasn't been properly communicated, because people still think that reducing the amount of miles driven will be enough to prevent catastrophe.
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Personal vehicles are such a small percentage of fossil fuel usage that everybody in the US could stop driving and it wouldn’t move the needle.

I completely agree with the lack of communication, but I suspect that this is intentional.
 
BaronVonGrim said:
Why does it go up? Because they want it to.
Gas your using today is 6 month old out of the ground. Anything that occurs today that would effect gas shouldn't show up until 6 month from now.
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Well, yes....

But, 6 months ago, and a year ago, and a year-and-change ago, there were obvious changes that were predicted (and probably intended) to drive up the price of oil.
 
I'm not against reducing the world's dependence on oil but I'm am however against the way that they are trying to implement it. The masters of the universe are pushing too hard to implement electric everything. These clowns always seem to put the cart before the horse. In this case trying to reduce the amount of an energy source that the entire world depends on in less than 10 years is complete and total reckless mind set.

It took well over 100 years to get the world to this point and now they want to do a 180 in less than ten? right. Sounds like a recipe for upheaval to me.

Give the world alternatives that are poised to be predominantly in place then you start to wean people off of oil. The other thing that no one is talking about is the petrodollar. Once it's gone the financial repercussions will be felt around the globe!

The ICE needs to be configured to run on alternatives more aggressively! Toyota as far as I know is the only one that is even considering it with the use of Hydrogen.

Lastly this whole deal is really about money and who is going to be in a position to control whatever source that is going to be dominant.
 
Sixstring said:
this whole deal is really about money and who is going to be in a position to control whatever source that is going to be dominant.
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It's more that we've been taken to the brink by the fossil fuel industry putting their profits ahead of everything else, we're seeing the repercussions of what you're describing, only it already happened.
 
Tannhauser said:
It's more that we've been taken to the brink by the fossil fuel industry putting their profits ahead of everything else, we're seeing the repercussions of what you're describing, only it already happened.
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It's unfolding and has been for years but it is being led by another industry that is sure to control the next desister! Lithium mining is already destroying a lot of places and are mostly owned by a country that is putting control and profits long before the environment and all in the name of climate change.

Just like crude it is a finite source once it runs out then we are onto the next thing and the whole cycle repeats. It won't really matter what the next big thing is and that's because it's a big thing! The real problem is the world population all wanting the same thing and the few that are trying to control all of it.

The way I see it All of the energy that we currently have needs to be put to use in sectors that best fit that sector. Heavy equipment, transportation, commercial, residential all need to be broke out and put into categories for an energy source or sources that suits them best! The entire world can't all be electric it's just not possible at this point in time the infrastructure is not their.

There are plenty of other sources that can be used besides oil and electricity they just need to be made a priority just like the price gouging of gasoline has been made a priority to push people to electricity. Don't you find it kind of funny how no other energy sources are being pushed as hard as electricity? Because it's by design! When you think about it it will be much easier to control and meter the flow of electrons than anything else.
 
We're not going to stop using a renewable resource like oil any time soon. The whole world rings on it, and it's cheaper and cleaner than electric for vehicles.
 
Sixstring said:
I'm not against reducing the world's dependence on oil but I'm am however against the way that they are trying to implement it. The masters of the universe are pushing too hard to implement electric everything. These clowns always seem to put the cart before the horse. In this case trying to reduce the amount of an energy source that the entire world depends on in less than 10 years is complete and total reckless mind set.

It took well over 100 years to get the world to this point and now they want to do a 180 in less than ten? right. Sounds like a recipe for upheaval to me.

Give the world alternatives that are poised to be predominantly in place then you start to wean people off of oil. The other thing that no one is talking about is the petrodollar. Once it's gone the financial repercussions will be felt around the globe!

The ICE needs to be configured to run on alternatives more aggressively! Toyota as far as I know is the only one that is even considering it with the use of Hydrogen.

Lastly this whole deal is really about money and who is going to be in a position to control whatever source that is going to be dominant.
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In fairness, the push to get off of Petro in the West has been in place since the 1970s. That's 50 years by my accounting.
Pretty much 2 generations have grown up with an awareness of what comes with Petro (wars, insurgencies, regime
change, dictators, puppet governments, and climate catastrophe). It has just been a reluctant slog on the part of
consumers AND corporations alike to make the long-term commitment, though. Basically, we have had a one step forward
and two steps back approach to our relationship to Petro.

The Petro Piper will eventually be paid, though.
 
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