School me on stereo

bigfoamfinger

Inspired
Longtime Fractal user, but always kept it mono. Looking to broaden my horizons but I am a total stereo noob.

What are some suggestions to get started with basic stereo functions, like panning one cab L and one R? How about for panning delays? Settings and connection suggestions would be appreciated
 
More and more I like stereo fx before 2 parallel L/R distorted amp blocks + stereo cab block hard panned L/R - seems more natural to my ear than fx after. Sample below:
Scn1=Enhanced Distortion,
Scn2=Distorted Harmony in C,
Scn3=Distorted Detune
Scn3=Enhanced Distorted Phaser
 

Attachments

  • STEREOSTUFF.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 18
Look I run stereo just because I like the wide delay in my ears, and I’m too lazy to split stereo to ears and mono to PA. I think in the mixer we pan my inputs so it’s like 75/25 for each side (eg both panned back to middle a bit) so it’s not totally dependent on standing in the middle of the room. Comments about stereo through a live PA are valid though: everyone will hear it differently depending on where they’re standing.
 
I'd only recommend it if you're running IEMs live. If you're using speakers it's not really worth it IMO, and for the price of two quality wedges or 2 power amps and guitar cabs you could get a halfway decent IEM setup anyway. With that said, it really is a pleasure playing live with good custom molded IEMs, a qualified monitor engineer, two amp blocks in stereo, stereo effects, and the enhancer block at the end. Creates so much space in your mix for things down the middle like click, snare, kick, vox, etc.

If you don't have a reliable monitor engineer or FOH engineer, you can even use the AX3 as your own IEM mixer so you have independent control of your own level. Just run the Out 2 block in parallel with your Out1 block, and put the Input 2 block right before it (in parallel with your guitar signal). FOH feed without your guitar goes to Input 2, FOH gets your Out 1, your IEM transmitter gets both from Out 2.

The argument that the audience can't hear the stereo image unless they stand at FOH sort of misses the point. No matter where they're standing they will hear your signal (if it's hard panned). Running stereo with slightly different sounds in L/R also helps avoid any phasing/comb filtering that can happen when you play an identical signal through two speakers at the same time.

Stereo is nice through good studio monitors too, but 9 times out of 10 I'm double tracking in mono, it just depends on the part.
 
Last edited:
I've got to agree that in many (most?) cases, running stereo to FOH can be a total nightmare. At a 'pro' venue, you have a better shot of hearing something great, but I can't count how many times I've run sound at a local dive only to find that the mains are wired out of phase, or running off one side of a power amp, or any other sus problem that totally compromises the sound & stereo image.

As far as running the axe stereo, it's still a worthy exercise, and you can create some really awesome tones that way. I especially like stereo lead patches when I'm recording.

One of my favourite methods for running a stereo sound is to split the signal into one amp & cab for Left, and another amp & cab for Right.
On one of those signals (either left OR right), add a very short 100% wet delay (~15-35ms) and a very slight amount of pitch shift (a couple cents, try using a modifier to modulate this number). This really exaggerates the stereo effect to give you more of that 'two guitars' feeling.

The Ken Andrews axe-fx video goes into this kind of approach in a lot more detail:

 
... everyone will hear it differently depending on where they’re standing.
I always run stereo live for exactly that reason. Where we are in the room and our two ears naturally provide a spatial depth perception for all acoustic sound sources, and I run stereo to try and "place' our band instruments in space where you would expect them to be - a little left of center, a little right of center, right in the middle. Very seldom do I program hard left and hard right, usually only in my Axe when I want ping pong delays or huge reverb sounds. Board is always hard L and hard R, I control where my signal goes by my scenes and presets. Plus, it's little extra trouble for our setup - 1 more cable. We already have powered speaker stacks left and right of stage and I have a 40 channel board so plenty of room (subs are always mono tho).
 
There are interesting things you can do by working in stereo. I've recently converted after always going mono since I started playing guitar (because guitar amps are mono).

I would start just by adding a stereo reverb at the end of your chain. Use one of the relatively tame ones, at least at first (Ambience, Music Hall, Recording Studio A/C, Small Hall, Small Room, etc.). Make sure you're actually monitoring in stereo and that you have a good stereo setup for your speakers.

One of the best things you can do is adjust your speaker position until your system will pass LEDR. If you have things set up, yes, the chirpy sounds will move like it describes. Yes, headphones/IEMs will pass too, but you have to use an HRTF plugin to get it to work (which also entails monitoring through a computer). But, they go a long way toward realism.

It's worth checking the mono sum somewhat extensively to make sure you're not losing anything vital if you have to downmix to mono (which you would do with some combination of the stereo spread on the reverb and the output mode in the setup menu). Or having mono and stereo versions of your presets so you can just pick which version of your presets you use for each gig.

But....there are other fun things...they do depend on your FOH engineer/system working right and not being flat-out wrong (e.g., speakers out of phase).

If you play with another guitarist and you both use modeling, you can do things like setting you both up kind of wide and panned to each side (whoever's on stage left is panned a bit toward house right), and when one of you takes a solo, you both step on a switch that pans you both center with the rhythm player a good bit wider (however you want...more reverb, detuned and delayed, etc.) and the lead player more focused up the middle (e.g., less reverb, mono delays, etc.). Things like that go a long way toward pushing the solo forward without having to get crazy louder.

And the cool thing is that FOH's mix doesn't have to change....they just leave each of your L and R outs hard panned at the same level and let you control more of your mix in a very repeatable and predictable way.

It does take some setup, and it'll work better if your band runs a digital mixer for your own monitor rig with isolated splits out for FOH (or go whole-hog and just do your own band mix and send FOH a stereo pair if you can get away with it). But, your IEMs will work better with that setup anyway, and you can ensure that at least your monitor mix is consistent.

We're kind of in a golden age where these kinds of things are not only possible but relatively affordable.
 
One of my favourite methods for running a stereo sound is to split the signal into one amp & cab for Left, and another amp & cab for Right.
On one of those signals (either left OR right), add a very short 100% wet delay (~15-35ms) and a very slight amount of pitch shift (a couple cents, try using a modifier to modulate this number). This really exaggerates the stereo effect to give you more of that 'two guitars' feeling.
I'm pretty sure that's what the Classic mode of the Enhancer block does ;)
 
I'm pretty sure that's what the Classic mode of the Enhancer block does ;)

Very cool, I’ll have to check that out. I haven’t messed with the enhancer block too much - as a fairly dedicated Ultra user I’m more accustomed to the ‘build it from scratch’ mentality, hahaha.
 
I use two FRFR monitors behind me in a barely panned stereo. A couple time-based effects use a little panning, and since we're not into FOH because it's an underpowered house system, we let our cabinets' sound bounce around the room. So when I use chorus on a clean preset it'll move around, or flanger for little Hendrix-like sounds, it's interesting, and the people can tell something's different, but it's more for the Pat Methany, wet sound. It's definitely not a signature sound, that'd be me getting my pick stuck on a pickup.
 
Run stereo any time you can. I don't understand this sentiment that you'll hear it differently depending on where you are in the room. If that were truly an issue, professional recordings would be done in mono.
 
Last edited:
Run stereo any time you can. I don't understand this sentiment that you'll hear it differently depending on where you are in the room. If that were truly an issue, professional recordings would be done in mono.
There's an optimal listening position for recorded music ;)

Doesn't mean it can't/won't sound ok when not in that position but depending on what you're doing it could sound very different for those on the left vs right vs middle.
 
There's an optimal listening position for recorded music ;)

Doesn't mean it can't/won't sound ok when not in that position but depending on what you're doing it could sound very different for those on the left vs right vs middle.
No doubt there is an optimal listen position for recorded music. Yet recorded music still is recorded in stereo and doesn’t care if you are listing in the optimal listening position. It still sounds good is my point. Take classic Van Halen. The guitar is panned hard right and the reverb is panned hard left. Still sounds killer no matter the listening position.
 
Last edited:
No doubt there is an optimal listen position for recorded music. Yet recorded music still is recorded in stereo and doesn’t care if you are listing in the optimal listening position. It still sounds good is my point. Take classic Van Halen. The guitar is panned hard right and the reverb is panned hard left. Still sounds killer no matter the listening position.
But if you did that live I'm pretty certain it would sound like ass to people on the far left...
 
No doubt there is an optimal listen position for recorded music. Yet recorded music still is recorded in stereo and doesn’t care if you are listing in the optimal listening position.
Yes, it does.

Most people don't care that they're not hearing it optimally because most people have never heard a stereo system set up properly.
 
No doubt there is an optimal listen position for recorded music. Yet recorded music still is recorded in stereo and doesn’t care if you are listing in the optimal listening position. It still sounds good is my point. Take classic Van Halen. The guitar is panned hard right and the reverb is panned hard left. Still sounds killer no matter the listening position.
Sound travels in the air and if you are closer to one of the speaker the volume of the sound from that speaker will be greater; so if reverb is left (only) and you are closer to the right speaker the level of the reverb will be less than if you were in the sweet post. In a studio environment the sweet spot is one of the corner of a equilateral triangle (where the other two corners are represented by the speaker). In this configuration you are equidistant from the two sources and you can listen to all the stereo field (as recorded). Another problem is the phase cancellation that can happens when you aren't in the sweet spot: even in small room move in one of the back corner of the room (opposite to the speaker) and you will listen a more prominent "bass" sound (bass frequencies).
In a live situation everything is empathized: there are a lot of different techniques (dual mono and so on) that can help with stereo sound but they aren't cheap....
 
Back
Top Bottom