Some initial observations compared to HX Stomp

manatarms

manatarms

Member
So I had HX Stomp before this, and still have Helix Native. While both are nice and you can get good tones out of them, here’s a few things I’ve noticed already that I like better with the FM9.

It’s super easy to dial in good Marshall tones. I’ve tried to like the different plexi amps on the Helix but they always sounded mushy, for lack of a better term, to me. Right out of the box I really like the plexi amps in the FM9.

I love, love, love all the options in the amp block to let you tweak things. Love that there are built in input and output EQs instead of having to use separate blocks. I also learned about different dynamic and speaker compression that can make it sound more on the edge, if needed. Love that the cab block lets you run two speakers and you can mix it from there.

There are frequencies I’m picking up in the dirty amps that seem to be missing in the Helix versions. It’s hard to explain but I hear them in the real amps too.

I love the grid and that you can have individual effects in parallel instead only having a whole series of effects being in the parallel chain.

Just overall the feel and tone of the amps is just awesome!! That’s just my initial observations.
 
The initial test that sold me on Fractal was comparing my HXS to my friend’s AxeIII. I did a simple comparison of Friedman models with the same IR. On the Fractal I could hear the string separation when a chord was strummed. On the Helix it was a blur and similar to what you called “mushy”. The core tone was similar but the clarity was vastly different. I couldn’t differentiate individual strings.

I then compared turning down the guitar volume pot. It was no contest. The HXS didn’t react like an amp in my opinion. The sound thinned out and got quieter but the gain didn’t really change. It wasn’t very amp like. The Fractal responded like an amp.

I sold my HXS and got an FM3 and now moved to the FM9. It’s a shame because I think there’s a lot to like about the Helix line but to me core amp sound is primary and I couldn’t get it from the Helix.
 
guitaryates said:
The initial test that sold me on Fractal was comparing my HXS to my friend’s AxeIII. I did a simple comparison of Friedman models with the same IR. On the Fractal I could hear the string separation when a chord was strummed. On the Helix it was a blur and similar to what you called “mushy”. The core tone was similar but the clarity was vastly different. I couldn’t differentiate individual strings.

I then compared turning down the guitar volume pot. It was no contest. The HXS didn’t react like an amp in my opinion. The sound thinned out and got quieter but the gain didn’t really change. It wasn’t very amp like. The Fractal responded like an amp.

I sold my HXS and got an FM3 and now moved to the FM9. It’s a shame because I think there’s a lot to like about the Helix line but to me core amp sound is primary and I couldn’t get it from the Helix.
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I don't have any experience with the Helix stuff, but last night I was playing 3 different guitars through the same preset and each guitar sounds quite different than the other. Every difference was highlighted by the tones instead of being masked by them, which has long been a gripe of mine when using amp sims.
 
manatarms said:
So I had HX Stomp before this, and still have Helix Native. While both are nice and you can get good tones out of them, here’s a few things I’ve noticed already that I like better with the FM9.

It’s super easy to dial in good Marshall tones. I’ve tried to like the different plexi amps on the Helix but they always sounded mushy, for lack of a better term, to me. Right out of the box I really like the plexi amps in the FM9.

I love, love, love all the options in the amp block to let you tweak things. Love that there are built in input and output EQs instead of having to use separate blocks. I also learned about different dynamic and speaker compression that can make it sound more on the edge, if needed. Love that the cab block lets you run two speakers and you can mix it from there.

There are frequencies I’m picking up in the dirty amps that seem to be missing in the Helix versions. It’s hard to explain but I hear them in the real amps too.

I love the grid and that you can have individual effects in parallel instead only having a whole series of effects being in the parallel chain.

Just overall the feel and tone of the amps is just awesome!! That’s just my initial observations.
Click to expand...
check Out the jumped 50 and jumped 100 watt plexis. Amazing sounding !
 
guitaryates said:
I sold my HXS and got an FM3 and now moved to the FM9. It’s a shame because I think there’s a lot to like about the Helix line but to me core amp sound is primary and I couldn’t get it from the Helix.
Click to expand...

Exactly my experience with the Stomp. Had two and don't get the fuss, and I tried all kinds of things incl decent IR's

I've heard it described that the Fractal is pro-level whilst the Helix is semi-pro.

In my experience, I completely agree
 
I've been an avid Line 6 User since 2001 and actually have been using my Helix LT over my Axe FX II for the last few years but ONLY because of the convenience, I know the AX8 was thing when I got t Helix but the Helix was more accessible to me at the time. As much as I love the effects in the unit as well as the configurability, the amp models are no where in the same league. For me its the "character" or "texture" if you will, of how the amps distort. Using it live was passable but in recordings the guitars always seemed to be like a blur.
 
manatarms said:
So I had HX Stomp before this, and still have Helix Native. While both are nice and you can get good tones out of them, here’s a few things I’ve noticed already that I like better with the FM9.

It’s super easy to dial in good Marshall tones. I’ve tried to like the different plexi amps on the Helix but they always sounded mushy, for lack of a better term, to me. Right out of the box I really like the plexi amps in the FM9.

I love, love, love all the options in the amp block to let you tweak things. Love that there are built in input and output EQs instead of having to use separate blocks. I also learned about different dynamic and speaker compression that can make it sound more on the edge, if needed. Love that the cab block lets you run two speakers and you can mix it from there.

There are frequencies I’m picking up in the dirty amps that seem to be missing in the Helix versions. It’s hard to explain but I hear them in the real amps too.

I love the grid and that you can have individual effects in parallel instead only having a whole series of effects being in the parallel chain.

Just overall the feel and tone of the amps is just awesome!! That’s just my initial observations.
Click to expand...

I was pleased to read this post because it sums up my feelings too with the Helix floor, which I did say a while back on here I would replace with an FM3 - I've yet to do it but it's inevitable it will happen. Ironically, since being on this forum, I've learned more about getting better results out of the Helix than I ever did on the Helix forum lol.. and it does sound better than I've ever had it, but man did it take some tweaking!

However, that fundamental issue is still there, and by mentioning how easy it is to get good Marshall tones, highlights the short comings of the Helix. Whilst it is probably still the most versatile modeler out there in terms of what you can do with it, it just lacks a bit of authenticity with those high gain tones, like you've said. There is a certain clarity of note separation in high gain tones that are missing in the Helix, and as for the Plexi tones, they are useless on Helix. I watched Richie Faulkner do a live stream from his house, with just a guitar and plexi amp, and it sounded great, so I went to my Helix for that tone and it was a million miles away. The Marshall tones, as I say, you can get something decent if you persist, but it's still not 100% satisfying.

I think the problem for high gain players using a Helix is that first off, there's nothing 'straight out of the box' that's any good, it's lot's of trial and error. Also, the Helix in my view has a tendency to be very harsh in the top end, and quite boomy in the bottom and it doesn't respond well to cutting a lot of highs and lows, it becomes quite anaemic quickly, so you need a much more subtle approach, and it does lack character for high gain, it is as you say, quite mushy a lot of the time. IR's seem to be quite fizzy too, so straight away there's a lot of fire fighting to do to dial it into something you feel happy with.

Anyway, your comparison post just encouraged me even further, that it's worth sacrificing some functionality by swapping to an FM3
 
Paulzx said:
I was pleased to read this post because it sums up my feelings too with the Helix floor, which I did say a while back on here I would replace with an FM3 - I've yet to do it but it's inevitable it will happen. Ironically, since being on this forum, I've learned more about getting better results out of the Helix than I ever did on the Helix forum lol.. and it does sound better than I've ever had it, but man did it take some tweaking!

However, that fundamental issue is still there, and by mentioning how easy it is to get good Marshall tones, highlights the short comings of the Helix. Whilst it is probably still the most versatile modeler out there in terms of what you can do with it, it just lacks a bit of authenticity with those high gain tones, like you've said. There is a certain clarity of note separation in high gain tones that are missing in the Helix, and as for the Plexi tones, they are useless on Helix. I watched Richie Faulkner do a live stream from his house, with just a guitar and plexi amp, and it sounded great, so I went to my Helix for that tone and it was a million miles away. The Marshall tones, as I say, you can get something decent if you persist, but it's still not 100% satisfying.

I think the problem for high gain players using a Helix is that first off, there's nothing 'straight out of the box' that's any good, it's lot's of trial and error. Also, the Helix in my view has a tendency to be very harsh in the top end, and quite boomy in the bottom and it doesn't respond well to cutting a lot of highs and lows, it becomes quite anaemic quickly, so you need a much more subtle approach, and it does lack character for high gain, it is as you say, quite mushy a lot of the time. IR's seem to be quite fizzy too, so straight away there's a lot of fire fighting to do to dial it into something you feel happy with.

Anyway, your comparison post just encouraged me even further, that it's worth sacrificing some functionality by swapping to an FM3
Click to expand...
I looked up some of Richie Faulkner's videos and found many where he's just playing a Marshall and first of all, he's pretty awesome!! Second, from what I've been messing around with on the FM9, I think it is SUPER easy to get the kinds of tones he's getting. I just pull up a Plexi or a Silver Jubilee and a 4x12 Greenback, dial to taste, add a little reverb and I'm there. And I love that you can easily make little adjustments (if you want, you don't have to) that really make things that much better. I was watching Brett Kingman's video on the Brown Sound and the minor adjustments he did in the dynamics section's output compression and the speaker section's speaker compression made it sound more like an on the ragged edge, loud amp was inspiring, and so cool! I've been making those tweaks often on other amps. I'm getting the best tone's I've ever had.

I understand that people want different things, and that they hear different things (or can't hear them), but I can't get over how some will say "just use the same IR and they sound the same." Well they don't. They are similar, but that extra 10% difference MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!! Well that's my opinion anyway. :)
 
Paulzx said:
I was pleased to read this post because it sums up my feelings too with the Helix floor, which I did say a while back on here I would replace with an FM3 - I've yet to do it but it's inevitable it will happen. Ironically, since being on this forum, I've learned more about getting better results out of the Helix than I ever did on the Helix forum lol.. and it does sound better than I've ever had it, but man did it take some tweaking!

However, that fundamental issue is still there, and by mentioning how easy it is to get good Marshall tones, highlights the short comings of the Helix. Whilst it is probably still the most versatile modeler out there in terms of what you can do with it, it just lacks a bit of authenticity with those high gain tones, like you've said. There is a certain clarity of note separation in high gain tones that are missing in the Helix, and as for the Plexi tones, they are useless on Helix. I watched Richie Faulkner do a live stream from his house, with just a guitar and plexi amp, and it sounded great, so I went to my Helix for that tone and it was a million miles away. The Marshall tones, as I say, you can get something decent if you persist, but it's still not 100% satisfying.

I think the problem for high gain players using a Helix is that first off, there's nothing 'straight out of the box' that's any good, it's lot's of trial and error. Also, the Helix in my view has a tendency to be very harsh in the top end, and quite boomy in the bottom and it doesn't respond well to cutting a lot of highs and lows, it becomes quite anaemic quickly, so you need a much more subtle approach, and it does lack character for high gain, it is as you say, quite mushy a lot of the time. IR's seem to be quite fizzy too, so straight away there's a lot of fire fighting to do to dial it into something you feel happy with.

Anyway, your comparison post just encouraged me even further, that it's worth sacrificing some functionality by swapping to an FM3
Click to expand...
+1

I kept Helix Native after I sold my Stomp for my FM3+FC6 combo and I've actually gotten much better at dialing in Line 6 tones after I got my FM3 🤣. Something about having awesome reference tones makes for a fun afternoon (PEQs galore on L6!).

Still we focus so much on the amp tones but where I feel Fractal is way ahead of the competition is on the effects side. The Fractal chorus/modulation effects are 80s studio rack worthy 😎
 
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LosD said:
Still we focus so much on the amp tones but where I feel Fractal is way ahead of the competition is on the effects side. The Fractal chorus/modulation effects are 80s studio rack worthy 😎
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And I think the exact opposite. For me, the strength of Fractal is the modeling of amplifiers and CABs.
The most important thing is that everyone should find what they are looking for :)
 
Mystik said:
And I think the exact opposite. For me, the strength of Fractal is the modeling of amplifiers and CABs.
The most important thing is that everyone should find what they are looking for :)
Click to expand...
Oh amp modelling is there, don't get me wrong (5153 Blue Channel FTW!), but effects are... 3D?
 
LosD said:
Oh amp modelling is there, don't get me wrong (5153 Blue Channel FTW!), but effects are... 3D?
Click to expand...
Yes .... in the ears :)
I don't think I need to explain to you that the sound can be flat and bland, but also beautiful with many details and nuances.
 
manatarms said:
I looked up some of Richie Faulkner's videos and found many where he's just playing a Marshall and first of all, he's pretty awesome!! Second, from what I've been messing around with on the FM9, I think it is SUPER easy to get the kinds of tones he's getting. I just pull up a Plexi or a Silver Jubilee and a 4x12 Greenback, dial to taste, add a little reverb and I'm there. And I love that you can easily make little adjustments (if you want, you don't have to) that really make things that much better. I was watching Brett Kingman's video on the Brown Sound and the minor adjustments he did in the dynamics section's output compression and the speaker section's speaker compression made it sound more like an on the ragged edge, loud amp was inspiring, and so cool! I've been making those tweaks often on other amps. I'm getting the best tone's I've ever had.

I understand that people want different things, and that they hear different things (or can't hear them), but I can't get over how some will say "just use the same IR and they sound the same." Well they don't. They are similar, but that extra 10% difference MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE!! Well that's my opinion anyway. :)
Click to expand...

You're making me sob.. but awesome to know! Yep, Richie is probably my favourite 'newer' guitar player at the moment. Check out his EMG demo he does playing Organa's Rage.. if that can be tone matched I would be in heaven!

What you're saying above with the Plexi and Jubilee models, can that be just as easily replicated on the FM3? I know the amp models are the same across all the fractals, just wondered if it was as straight forward or if the FM9 is doing something different?
 
LosD said:
Oh amp modelling is there, don't get me wrong (5153 Blue Channel FTW!), but effects are... 3D?
Click to expand...
I think Fractal is well acknowledged now for the quality effects, and the amp models are also highly rated by most. I suppose what interests me the most is the superior quality of the amp models. What I've found over the years with modelers is there is a big difference between constantly tweaking something that you can live with, as opposed to something that you really like straight away, and just inspires you to play. When you have the first instance you spend more time tweaking than playing. You have to love what you hear or else you stop playing and start tweaking.

In my experience, if you don'y really like the amp model you're using to begin with, you can improve it but you never love it. That's where I think Fractal is making it's users happy, as opposed to the direction I've come from.
 
Paulzx said:
I think Fractal is well acknowledged now for the quality effects, and the amp models are also highly rated by most. I suppose what interests me the most is the superior quality of the amp models. What I've found over the years with modelers is there is a big difference between constantly tweaking something that you can live with, as opposed to something that you really like straight away, and just inspires you to play. When you have the first instance you spend more time tweaking than playing. You have to love what you hear or else you stop playing and start tweaking.

In my experience, if you don'y really like the amp model you're using to begin with, you can improve it but you never love it. That's where I think Fractal is making it's users happy, as opposed to the direction I've come from.
Click to expand...
Oh definitely agree! With Fractal seems like add amp + cab and you're there. No tweaking (unless you want to 😎).
 
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Paulzx said:
You're making me sob.. but awesome to know! Yep, Richie is probably my favourite 'newer' guitar player at the moment. Check out his EMG demo he does playing Organa's Rage.. if that can be tone matched I would be in heaven!

What you're saying above with the Plexi and Jubilee models, can that be just as easily replicated on the FM3? I know the amp models are the same across all the fractals, just wondered if it was as straight forward or if the FM9 is doing something different?
Click to expand...
You could do everything I did with the FM3. There is nothing in the amp block that I did that isn't there in the FM3. Watch Berg's video starting at around 5:40 he starts to go through the amp settings. Pretty easy to do.

 
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