Basic 'natural science' education?

yyz67

Fractal Fanatic
This is a spin-off from a discussion in the thread I wanted to mimic/recreate something I experienced. I love that @Rocketsurgeongeneral did an actual experiment and then asked some questions about what was observed (and if/how this could be mimicked in the Axe).

I'm not aware of how basic science is being taught these days (although I'm sure there are many great teachers), but I lament that in general few people have much 'general' knowledge about nature overall, some of which can be captured in a relatively small set of basic concepts (as a start). We live in a world (natural and man-made) that is always interacting with itself sometimes simply and sometimes complexly, even if it appears relatively static or always going in a particular direction (e.g. myth of perpetual progress and economic growth (for whom?)). This is woefully inadequate to understand how the world works and our impacts within it.

To my mind some simple concepts like: stasis/equilibrium, cycles/periodicity, linearity, geometric/exponential/logarithmic (growth/decay/saturation/relaxation), resonance/anti-resonance are all easily observed and demonstrable in nature and man-made things/systems. Bonus points for concepts of: iteration and recurrence, feedback (pos/neg), elastic (reversible, nondeforming) vs. inelastic (irreversible, deforming), instantaneity vs. delay/lag, regularity vs. chaos vs. randomness, memoryless/state-independent vs state-dependent processes, "evolution" of states, the general systems law of unintended consequences. This doesn't even cover the ability or willingness to do experiments and ask questions.

As a simple example, many people don't have understand why musical instruments make the sounds they do (some hints: resonance, pos feedback, elasticity, periodicity). Armed with simple concepts like this a kid might wonder: Does my butt have resonances - maybe it does cause I can hear it when I fart? Why can I do 'silent' farts or really loud ones that are super funny and then all my friends also try to make loud farts? Why can I hear a bee's wings but not a butterfly's wings? Why can't I hear what a dog hears? Why can't I hear a spider web vibration? How can I hear at all? If there's no sound in space are all those movies wrong? How can I make a stringed instrument? Why does my stringed instrument sound plinky/quiet rather than loud and smooth like a violin or piano? Why does hitting a random wooden object sound like a click, knock, or thump? Why are girl's voices higher? Do stars, planets, moons have cycles, vibrations or resonances? When I ask my mom something 100 times in a row why does she stop listening and then blow up? [Admittedly this might be a very white, modernized, western male perspective.]

Learning itself involves iteration and feedback (neg/pos), sometimes with resonances ("oh, that makes sense now and I see how this is related to that") and saturation ("teach, I can't take in any more information right now").

This also applies to the spread of information/misinformation. The process is the same for any information propagation, and we tend to believe or hear what we've already accepted or want to accept (resonance, pos feedback, amplification). Social media is so profitable and (unfortunately) divisive because it amplifies/reinforces views and attitudes that are self-synergistic ("echo chambers" with both signal and feedback cranked up) while also being antagonistic towards 'opposite' or threatening views. [I'm not taking any 'sides' but witnessing the general phenomenon from a scientific or systems view].

Anyway after this long tirade, inviting synergistic, alternative, and contrary views and thoughts...
 
I've also recently become interested in "indigenous" perspectives and thinking which are very different from an analytical, scientific approaches.

I see 'general systems theory', complexity theory, and multidisciplinary approaches as dipping a toe into a more holistic interdependent approach, but it still seems handicapped by the western 'observational' view and the tendency to break things into parts to try to build up understanding rather than starting from a holistic (already whole and already working as it should) perspective.
 
Butt cheeks seem to resonate in direct proportion to the velocity of the fart. :)

Kind of curious that when having a discussion about "natural science" one also has to
include socio-cultural factors that either inhibit it, or encourage it.
 
Wheel within wheels in a spiral array
A pattern so grand and complex
Time after time we lose sight of the way
Our causes can't see their effects
 
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(OT from my own OP inspired by @la noise)


Natural Flatulence

When the ebbing gas retreats through the cotton knickers
It leaves a trail of dank skid marks in short-lived underwear
Each microbiotic discharge, a complete society

A simple kind of passing to reflect upon our own
All the noxious little creatures chasing out their destinies
Living in their clouds, they soon forget about the tushie

Butts within butts in a sphincter array
A pattern so gross and simplex
Flush after flush we lose scent of the way
Our butts can't smell their effects

A quantum crap forward in fetid odor
The derrière learned to expand
Messy and magic, tawny and tragic
A dyspeptic world out of hand

Constipated clinic for posterior cynics
Who break wind from a synthetic gland
In their own feces their world is fashioned
No wonder they don't understand

Buttholes, like nature, must also be tamed
With a view towards their preservation
Given the same state of flatulence
They will surely serve us well

The most endangered species, an honest ass
Will still survive expurgation
Forming a cloud, a state of indulgency
Sonorous, olid, and strong

Poop after poop will float in the tide
And bury the bum as it does
Fart after fart will blow and recede
Leaving butt to go on as it was
 
(OT from my own OP inspired by @la noise)


Natural Flatulence


When the ebbing gas retreats through the cotton knickers
It leaves a trail of dank skid marks in short-lived underwear
Each microbiotic discharge, a complete society


A simple kind of passing to reflect upon our own
All the noxious little creatures chasing out their destinies
Living in their clouds, they soon forget about the tushie


Butts within butts in a sphincter array
A pattern so gross and simplex
Flush after flush we lose scent of the way
Our butts can't smell their effects


A quantum crap forward in fetid odor
The derrière learned to expand
Messy and magic, tawny and tragic
A dyspeptic world out of hand


Constipated clinic for posterior cynics
Who break wind from a synthetic gland
In their own feces their world is fashioned
No wonder they don't understand


Buttholes, like nature, must also be tamed
With a view towards their preservation
Given the same state of flatulence
They will surely serve us well


The most endangered species, an honest ass
Will still survive expurgation
Forming a cloud, a state of indulgency
Sonorous, olid, and strong


Poop after poop will float in the tide
And bury the bum as it does
Fart after fart will blow and recede
Leaving butt to go on as it was
You, sir, are an artiste! Magnificent.
 
Well, I am kind of a scientist myself ...

More people who are capable of critical and analytical thinking would be nice. But even the new generation of students starting in STEM disciplines is shockingly illiterate in science.
 
If you haven't noticed, these days science is what the fact-checkers approve and doesn't hurt people's feelings.
 
I don't know- I'm a science teacher at a suburban high school, and I teach some pretty high level kids- serious students who often go on to be very successful in their fields. Just saying- there is a lot of talent out there, and while there certainly are plenty of chuckleheads, a lot of these kids give me hope for the future. They're good kids, off to a good start.
 
They're good kids, off to a good start.
It depends on what science they choose to believe in:
  • How many genders are?
  • Can a man give birth?
  • etc.

They need to answer these correctly; otherwise, they will have a hard time, regardless of how well they understand string theory.
 
I don't know- I'm a science teacher at a suburban high school, and I teach some pretty high level kids- serious students who often go on to be very successful in their fields. Just saying- there is a lot of talent out there, and while there certainly are plenty of chuckleheads, a lot of these kids give me hope for the future. They're good kids, off to a good start.
I went to Catholic school, and we got pretty much all the concepts in the op in Physics, in my senior year. Now, it was an elective by then, since I (and most all students) would have satisfied my science credits before being eligible to take physics.
However, what I really wanted, and don't know if they teach this way yet, would have been to maybe have outside people come in and show us how learning some of these concepts would've been useful to us in the real world.

For example, I was a custom home framing contractor for a good part of my career, but during high school, I never knew just how much I'd end up using Geometry in my work. Me, personally, I didn't need that type of push to get engaged in the subject, since I happened to like geometry, but I could see how if say, a home builder came into class one day and explained how he used geometry concepts in constructing a house, how that could've added a bit more interest to the subject.
But when it came to Calculus, I used to always ask my teacher just how is this stuff going to be relevant to us in the real world.
 
I went to Catholic school, and we got pretty much all the concepts in the op in Physics, in my senior year. Now, it was an elective by then, since I (and most all students) would have satisfied my science credits before being eligible to take physics.
However, what I really wanted, and don't know if they teach this way yet, would have been to maybe have outside people come in and show us how learning some of these concepts would've been useful to us in the real world.

For example, I was a custom home framing contractor for a good part of my career, but during high school, I never knew just how much I'd end up using Geometry in my work. Me, personally, I didn't need that type of push to get engaged in the subject, since I happened to like geometry, but I could see how if say, a home builder came into class one day and explained how he used geometry concepts in constructing a house, how that could've added a bit more interest to the subject.
But when it came to Calculus, I used to always ask my teacher just how is this stuff going to be relevant to us in the real world.
Yea, that's always a good idea when you can, and bringing in industry people as visitors does happen, although often via Zoom/Google Meets, etc. Our biotech and anatomy/physiology class does this a few times a semester- this last semester, they watched a live heart surgery, and one of the doctors actually turned out to be a former student of ours who had taken my class, and the class that was watching her procedure. I've had a few astronomers talk to my classes over the years, but they're harder to come by.

It's interesting that you mention geometry and construction- we had that course for a few semesters- they built some sheds and garages on campus, with the specific intention of reaching struggling geometry students.

In AP Bio, unfortunately, it's been pretty darn easy over the last couple of years to demonstrate why biology is usable in the real world.
 
(OT from my own OP inspired by @la noise)


Natural Flatulence


When the ebbing gas retreats through the cotton knickers
It leaves a trail of dank skid marks in short-lived underwear
Each microbiotic discharge, a complete society


A simple kind of passing to reflect upon our own
All the noxious little creatures chasing out their destinies
Living in their clouds, they soon forget about the tushie


Butts within butts in a sphincter array
A pattern so gross and simplex
Flush after flush we lose scent of the way
Our butts can't smell their effects


A quantum crap forward in fetid odor
The derrière learned to expand
Messy and magic, tawny and tragic
A dyspeptic world out of hand


Constipated clinic for posterior cynics
Who break wind from a synthetic gland
In their own feces their world is fashioned
No wonder they don't understand


Buttholes, like nature, must also be tamed
With a view towards their preservation
Given the same state of flatulence
They will surely serve us well


The most endangered species, an honest ass
Will still survive expurgation
Forming a cloud, a state of indulgency
Sonorous, olid, and strong


Poop after poop will float in the tide
And bury the bum as it does
Fart after fart will blow and recede
Leaving butt to go on as it was

Damn! Is/was that spontaneous?? Or were you sandbagging and created this thread because you
had this poem all ready and at the waiting? :)
 
You familiar with this book @yyz67 ??

41f87HAMahS._SX322_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg
 
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