JCM800 2203x halfstack vs AXE FIII w/poweramp and cab

knwlnd said:
Of course, this is all entirely personal and subjective as I’m sure you are aware.

It’s interesting that you describe the AXE-FX III as flat and muddy, In that video I would have said that about the real 2555 and I’m pretty sure I had more than one moment saying that about the real amp when I had them.

For me with a very small amount of tweaking only on the authentic page I could get them to match (ignoring the physical knob positions and matching by ear) easily sounding more or less identical through the same IR or cabinet I had at the time.

There was also a little indescribable something I liked in the crunch from the AXE-FX III, like a crisp, clear but smooth crunch that was elusive with the real amps. One day I could get it then for the next few weeks I couldn’t.

The AXE-FX III 2555 also has a character that can easily be tightened (rock/metal) or loosened (blues) very easily. I found this hard to do with the real deal.

From that point on it was about what I could get out of the AXE-FX III 2555 that the Jubilee couldn’t do.

I was also able to dial it in at a more manageable volume without using an attenuator which always seems to compress and add noise as a part of its function.

Beyond that the ability to alter the valves, bias, variac, saturation and multitude of other settings to coax other more exaggerated sounds out of it made it a winner for me.

And this is all before considering the IR game, where you can use the voice of any cabinet you want without breaking your back, bank or filling up your house.

Don’t even get me started on the AXE-FX III effects… we are spoilt beyond belief with this thing.
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Thanks for your point of view.
I dont't referrer to effects of the million of thing fxIII can do, in that fxIII win 100%,
i speak about amp's pure sound. So you can say that they may have the same sound don't matching the knobs position? Probably my error is that i use the same knob position that have in the real thing, but I know also that the model on fxIII is based on lerst omega amp that is a jubilee 50w and it sound more different than 2555 100w version.


On the other hands I agree about FXIII flexibility, the linearity of the sound, real amp today sound good and tomorrow not.
 
Two best sounds I've ever had - my Marshall Jubilee back in the late 80s and recently a 2203 very, very loud.

The latter is nailed by the Axe, no doubt - for me I'd love them to model an actual Jubilee rather than an 'improved' clone - one day.

Current one works pretty well mind
 
Giordydiver said:
Probably my error is that i use the same knob position that have in the real thing
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https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/why-your-amp-doesnt-sound-like-our-amp.172907/

Read every single thing on this.


Also you cannot tweak the real amp , like the one on fractal using advanced parameters to make it sounding better than real amps.

At this point i honestly do not care what an amp sounds in real. Because i can do crazy things which are not easy to do on the real amp.
 
chumbucket said:
The Axe III fed into a power amp and cabinet will not compare to the real JCM800 and 4x12. Apples and oranges.
If you're talking about mic'ing up a cab and recording the half stack, then the Axe can compete. Otherwise, you won't be able to scratch that itch of the visceral punch of the amp in the room.
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I can’t say I agree at all. I’ve got a Mesa 2x12 with Black Shadows in it, I’ve put my III/FM9 up against a Friedman JJ halfstack and a Peavey XXX halfstack and it had NO problem keeping up, it swallowed the XXX like a whale eating a goldfish and when I was showing my buddy who owns the JJ the Friedman models, he’s a total tube purist guy, he just said “Shiiiiiit……if it weren’t for all the programming and buttons, I’d sell this JJ right now.”

And that was just using a solid state head as a slave to power the cab, I couldn’t imagine what a tube power amp would sound like with that 2x12 I’ve got. That thing is like a wrecking ball.
 
Giordydiver said:
Thanks for your point of view.
I dont't referrer to effects of the million of thing fxIII can do, in that fxIII win 100%,
i speak about amp's pure sound. So you can say that they may have the same sound don't matching the knobs position? Probably my error is that i use the same knob position that have in the real thing, but I know also that the model on fxIII is based on lerst omega amp that is a jubilee 50w and it sound more different than 2555 100w version.


On the other hands I agree about FXIII flexibility, the linearity of the sound, real amp today sound good and tomorrow not.
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Yes, for me I was able to get so close to the sound of the specific heads I had, particularly my #1 Jubilee that I couldn’t tell any difference. The other was a bit off from memory but with a little more time and patience I’m confident I could have matched it.

Yes you are correct, the mode is based on a Lerxst Jubilee variant as far as I am aware.

Ignore the knob positions, just match by ear. If I tried to match the two actual Marshall Jubilee heads I had by knob positions, they sounded very different (all the pot tapers and resistances are different despite being the same amp built around the same time).
 
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Thomas Obester said:
I was tube amp freak for 15 years.

Had in my possesion : Friedman BE-100 deluxe, BE-50 deluxe, Friedman Modded Jerry Cantrel JJ 100, Diezel Herbert, Diezel VH4, Diezel VH2, Mesa Road King II.

Did extensive testing first with my ax8, I still kept some friedmans and diezels.

Then I bought AXE 3, maybe 2-3 weeks prior to official launch of Cygnus.

Did extensive testing again with all my amps.
Today I have no tube amps anymore.
I used all those money to help with financing a new house and my sound is better than ever, so Win-Win situation.
YMMV
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So judging from your profile picture, you use the Axe FX III with that Friedman 4x12 cab?
 
I've run the Axe III into solid state power amps, tube power amps, effects loop returns of tube amps, and in my opinion it falls short of the real thing.

Im talking about just amp block into output block into power amp. I'm not talking about the fact that it has 290 amps and tons of effects. I'm not talking about running into FRFR or studio monitors.

I'm talking about guitar-cable-100w cranked Marshall-4x12. The Axe -power amp-4x12 might get 90% or so of the way there but that final 10% makes a huge difference. Kind of like a smeared, out of focus copy of the much sharper image.

Does that change my opinion that Fractal makes an incredible magic black box that is most likely the coolest piece of guitar gear out there (until the Axe IV comes out) as well as being an amazing bang for the buck? No. I've recommended them to every guitar player I know.

So, when I want to rock out loud, I plug into the real thing and get that gut punch. If I want to do recording or low volume practice, I'm using a Fractal.
 
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Thomas Obester said:
I use Adam A7X´s and they are amazing for the price.
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I wonder how good these will be with the axe from what i have heard theyre amazing however a bit out of my budget rn .

I currently use rokit g4's R7's while people call them muddy theyre still pretty great after you cut off the bass and mids via monitor dsp.

What monitors are a notch above a7x's in terms of clarity?
 
Giordydiver said:
Thanks for your point of view.
I dont't referrer to effects of the million of thing fxIII can do, in that fxIII win 100%,
i speak about amp's pure sound. So you can say that they may have the same sound don't matching the knobs position? Probably my error is that i use the same knob position that have in the real thing, but I know also that the model on fxIII is based on lerst omega amp that is a jubilee 50w and it sound more different than 2555 100w version.


On the other hands I agree about FXIII flexibility, the linearity of the sound, real amp today sound good and tomorrow not.
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First of all rules:
Use your Ear, not your Eyes.
Cliff has mentioned that several times.
 
I play JCM 800 since 1981 and still have the 50w 1x12 combo and the effects board with Barber DDSS and my Ibanez Wah. After getting the FM3 I was glad to sell the big and heavy heads and cabs. The FM3 sounds better at home, is more flexible and easy to transport. Using the little A5X desktop monitors I can turn up the master vol of the JCM to where the fun is. Impossible with the real thing.
There is a 2x12 at home and a 4x12 at the rehearsal room, where I use a small digital amp for fun and the aitr sound, and is loud enough for everything. But most of the time I go direct to the mixer. It is so easy and convenient and sounds phantastic.
 
Hmm... it's seems you need to buy the JCM 800 first, try it, if it not suits you, you can sell it and then buy the axe FX. or the other way around. need to research which one is more easy to sell in the second hand market in your area.
 
LiamH said:
I have had a (pre-JCM800) 1980 JMP 2203 since about 1995. Same amp with different styling effectively.

It is probably the last amp I will ever sell, and it has been used through a multitude of 4 x 12 cabs over the years. Yes, it can be a bit fizzy, it needs to be ridiculously loud to get the best from it (I use a Marshall Power Brake to tame it quite often), I need pedals to get everything I want from it (modded TS-10 is the go to drive), but I completely failed to find anything that I could use as a substitute for years and years. I wanted a little more versatility, the possibility of a clean channel, and hopefully more portable. I went through a whole bunch of different amps, and there was nothing, absolutely nothing that felt anything like right in a live scenario. Closest I got for low volume/smaller rooms was a silver face Fender Deluxe Reverb, which was similarly just on the "nasty side of nice", and was great for smaller gigs. But then it turned out to be worth 5 times what I paid for it, so it went. (As did my spare '78 JMP 2203 when it turned out to be worth 3 times what I paid for it.)

And then (in 2016 I think) I got an Axe FX II, a power amp and a 15" FRFR cab. I spent quite a long time deep tweaking the Brit 800 2204 model, among others, and finally found a decent usable substitute. For the first time ever I could play any size of gig, or practise at home, and while it wasn't quite a 2203 in a box, the feel was close enough that I played happily at any volume, anywhere, and if I needed a Fender Twin clean sound, or Vox AC30 harmonic overtones, they were there on tap.

Since then it got a whole lot better. I bought an Axe FX III, and then Cygnus firmware got released, and the way I use the 2203 (cleaner than you'd think) is really faithfully imitated nowadays. I can even imitate the differences between my favourite 4 x 12 cabs that got sold or traded over the years.

I don't think you are insane, but I definitely don't need to plug into my 2203 half stack anymore. It has been languishing in the gear cupboard with my JMP 1987 50 watt head and the one remaining 4 x 12 cab for some time now. You might need to do it just to get the 4 x 12 half stack bug out of your system, but an Axe FX and a relatively small (but high quality) FRFR powered speaker can make all the same feel, tones and more.

Liam
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What power amp and FRFR do you use?
 
The Marshall in the axe are the best from any other modelers

+1 to have the real jubilee modeled one day…

the one in the axe is not as good as the head cause that’s a clone or something like that .
 
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Giordydiver said:
Can i ask you why you prefer the model of fx3 over the original? In this moment i dont know if go with fx3 or with real 2555+Ox amp loadbox. I have tried fm3 last year and was really far from 2555, was like flat and muddy, the real one has more bottom more open.
In this video you can hear this:


I think fx3 is more flexible but the sound and the feel of the real one is better
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The C sounds so good here (also the real head) 🤤
I was fan of this head , nothing to compare with the silver model we have . Maybe one day I ll buy one it will ends like this
 
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