Edit: if you just want the reveal click here.
Let me preface all this by saying: I'm squarely in the camp than thinks OpAmp changes on the TS circuit topology yield little to no returns. I've built a fair number of pedals in my time and more than a few of them were flavor-of-the-month Tub Screamer variants. In that time I've formed the opinion that the TS circuit topology is largely immune to component drift and component changes modulo the clipping diodes (and even those I'm pretty reluctant to admit do a lot to change the sound of the circuit). Nothing in the circuit gets run at the edge of its nominal operating parameters save for the clipping section so swapping parts yields no real differences.
With the 17.00b3 release we got a new OpAmp in the TS 808 models and a chance to do a virtual drive model comparison of the effect of OpAmp changes in the TS circuit. The Axe-Fx III and it's re-amping capabilities make this fun and easy.
Does my opinion hold up? Let's see!
All of these comparisons are done with the drive pedal settings at default: 5 Gain, 5 Tone, 5 Output. And I've attached the preset I used if you want to verify anything. The Drive 2 block was used for the clips. It's a 17.00b3 preset.
First, let's look at the TS 808 model and compare it across beta release. Here's the TS 808 b3 vs. the TS 808 b2. Can you pick out which one is the b3 and which is the b2 in this track?
We can pan them dead center and phase invert one of them to see that there most definitely are differences in the output. But can you tell me which one is using the more preferred OpAmp in the model?
(That's the unnormalized bounce from Logic)
Next let's look at the Maxon 808 model added in 17.00b3. In the thread where this was I requested I suggested the Maxon 808 was largely the same as any old TS9 and you could get to the Maxon 808 sound with a little EQ tweaking. If we do the same hard pan comparison, can you pick out the Maxoff 808 and the TS 808 in the clip?
Again, the differential signal shows that they are definitely different in their frequency content, but not by much.
Edit: @Smittefar asked if I could do a comparison where sounds changed back-to-back instead of running things in parallel, panned hard left and right. Sure! Here's a back-to-back comparison of the above settings. Can you tell which is which model?
With a gun to my head, I'd never be able to tell you which was a Maxon 808, which was a TS 808 and which came from 17.00b2 or 17.00b3. It's very, very subtle differences here. And I contend a little EQ'ing of the TS 808 and they'd be identical.
Note: @FractalAudio suggested the differences are more pronounced if you roll off your guitar volume. I might try that, but given that's not how I use a Tube Screamer it's less interesting to my use case.
The Tube Screamer is my defintion of the ultimate, mass-production ready sound circuit -- so resiliant to component changes and drift you can bang them out with anything you can get your hands on and they sound pretty much identical.
It's industrialized guitar tone that sounds amazing.
The Rolling Rock of guitar pedals.
Edit 2: @My name is mud asked me to do Drive 0, Tone 5, Level 10 and use an "heavy" amp setting. Sure! I went with @2112's
Here's the back to back clip. Can you tell me what you hear?
Even more so than before, I can't tell anything apart here. With the diodes mostly removed from the drive models on account of the gain being set to 0 nullifying most of the clipping, the op amps are a total wash to my ears.
Let me preface all this by saying: I'm squarely in the camp than thinks OpAmp changes on the TS circuit topology yield little to no returns. I've built a fair number of pedals in my time and more than a few of them were flavor-of-the-month Tub Screamer variants. In that time I've formed the opinion that the TS circuit topology is largely immune to component drift and component changes modulo the clipping diodes (and even those I'm pretty reluctant to admit do a lot to change the sound of the circuit). Nothing in the circuit gets run at the edge of its nominal operating parameters save for the clipping section so swapping parts yields no real differences.
With the 17.00b3 release we got a new OpAmp in the TS 808 models and a chance to do a virtual drive model comparison of the effect of OpAmp changes in the TS circuit. The Axe-Fx III and it's re-amping capabilities make this fun and easy.
Does my opinion hold up? Let's see!
All of these comparisons are done with the drive pedal settings at default: 5 Gain, 5 Tone, 5 Output. And I've attached the preset I used if you want to verify anything. The Drive 2 block was used for the clips. It's a 17.00b3 preset.
First, let's look at the TS 808 model and compare it across beta release. Here's the TS 808 b3 vs. the TS 808 b2. Can you pick out which one is the b3 and which is the b2 in this track?
We can pan them dead center and phase invert one of them to see that there most definitely are differences in the output. But can you tell me which one is using the more preferred OpAmp in the model?
(That's the unnormalized bounce from Logic)
Next let's look at the Maxon 808 model added in 17.00b3. In the thread where this was I requested I suggested the Maxon 808 was largely the same as any old TS9 and you could get to the Maxon 808 sound with a little EQ tweaking. If we do the same hard pan comparison, can you pick out the Maxoff 808 and the TS 808 in the clip?
Again, the differential signal shows that they are definitely different in their frequency content, but not by much.
Edit: @Smittefar asked if I could do a comparison where sounds changed back-to-back instead of running things in parallel, panned hard left and right. Sure! Here's a back-to-back comparison of the above settings. Can you tell which is which model?
With a gun to my head, I'd never be able to tell you which was a Maxon 808, which was a TS 808 and which came from 17.00b2 or 17.00b3. It's very, very subtle differences here. And I contend a little EQ'ing of the TS 808 and they'd be identical.
Note: @FractalAudio suggested the differences are more pronounced if you roll off your guitar volume. I might try that, but given that's not how I use a Tube Screamer it's less interesting to my use case.
The Tube Screamer is my defintion of the ultimate, mass-production ready sound circuit -- so resiliant to component changes and drift you can bang them out with anything you can get your hands on and they sound pretty much identical.
It's industrialized guitar tone that sounds amazing.
The Rolling Rock of guitar pedals.
Edit 2: @My name is mud asked me to do Drive 0, Tone 5, Level 10 and use an "heavy" amp setting. Sure! I went with @2112's
Leon's Live preset, used a CAB block with his TV mix in it and then the requested settings on the TS 808 and Maxoff 808 models.Here's the back to back clip. Can you tell me what you hear?
Even more so than before, I can't tell anything apart here. With the diodes mostly removed from the drive models on account of the gain being set to 0 nullifying most of the clipping, the op amps are a total wash to my ears.
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