Ooooh... Charts and Graphs Redux

moreover i dont get how these guys compare even the same amp models, across different modellers, by tweaking them same, because there are alot of choices that can be made different when trying to model something, someone has referred colder amps, some refer to hotter bias, some come up with their own sweet setups .

We have alot at the back going on, for us with fractal its easier to see why a stock amp sounds hot or dark or whatever, to those guys they have nothing to see.

They just mess with BMT MV gain, and think its should sound wonderful. which is very nice if it does. But making judgements that the latter sounds better than the former without understanding the reference amps used to model may themselves sound different, and that the some devices have a potential far beyond iG you try to understand and make a tone and let you overcome any preferential tonal difference in the reference amp if at all or get creative.

More options to sculpt a tone is never a bad thing unlike what people say. I certainly have full control over myself that i dont tweak endlessly, and play guitar when i have to, and tweak when im in the mood to. without compromising on either.
Why Cliff is focusing on an element of modeling that is going to be heard on every amp model.
 
Yes and there's also this thing where people hate on fractal for no valid reason other than it dominating the space so long. Simply Simply because its kinda become a benchmark and its also a lot pricier than other things even if they offer much less arent updated as frequently or are half assed like the newest thing.
So since a company makes good plugins , everything they make must be gold. and then that becomes a whole fucking wave of people tryna act anti to whatever has ideally been doing well , and try to justify it with cr*p

Then there's also this set of old school amp guys who a reluctant to change and probably dislike fractal for being so good at it, and then express shit on internet because their bias is less towards other modellers.



Really stupid SMH.
Small point... With "the newest thing" I'm not sure price is a big debate between it and fractal, if it is that is dang weird since they're in the same price range.
 
Small point... With "the newest thing" I'm not sure price is a big debate between it and fractal, if it is that is dang weird since they're in the same price range.
theres atleast a 600$ difference and then they add up fc6/fc12 cost. to it, because there's no pedalboard with the rack unit. In some countries outside usa difference can be even higher between the main units.

So to alot of people the price range is a notch above for the 3.

fm3 /fm9 are a different story but there they cry about the dsp.
 
Here's another comparison between the real amp (green), Axe-Fx (purple) and Product B (blue). I've reduced the sweep frequency so the first three harmonics are captured. The reason the Axe-Fx looks "better" than the amp is because there's less thermal noise than the real amp.

aliasing3.PNG
 
Yes and there's also this thing where people hate on fractal for no valid reason

Well... not exactly "for NO valid reason." I agree its MOSTLY because the top dog always has people trying to tear it down but you'd have to admit that articles like this are basically picking a fight.

AND we as Fractal users are notoriously rabid fanfolk that have to inject our love of Fractal into every conversation whether asked or not. The cultlike nature of our fandom does not endear us to people who own/use other products.

It cuts both ways because I see Helix people talking about how the Helix is just as good and they switched and the Fractal is a waste of money. I find that irritates me because I had exactly the opposite experience. I'm not sure which was the chicken and which was the egg.

other than it dominating the space so long. Simply Simply because its kinda become a benchmark and its also a lot pricier than other things even if they offer much less arent updated as frequently or are half assed like the newest thing.
So since a company makes good plugins , everything they make must be gold. and then that becomes a whole fucking wave of people tryna act anti to whatever has ideally been doing well , and try to justify it with cr*p

Then there's also this set of old school amp guys who a reluctant to change and probably dislike fractal for being so good at it, and then express shit on internet because their bias is less towards other modellers.
There are certainly people talking trash with no basis in experience. There are also people who have used Fractal and prefer their old school amps for their particular application. When people pop up in threads saying things like "[the product I use] would make you throw all those old junk amps away", it makes people sour and that sort of taste builds up in your mouth over time and doesn't wear off.

"Keeping it real", perhaps...
 
View attachment 89013Latest measurements.

Purple is Axe-Fx III. Blue is a new thing.

Aliasing is especially poor in the high frequencies. Usually the aliasing spectrum is sort of flat (like the Axe-Fx). With this product the aliasing increases with frequency which is odd.

Model used was JCM800. All controls at noon except Presence at zero. Gain was matched.

😮😮😮
 
AND we as Fractal users are notoriously rabid fanfolk that have to inject our love of Fractal into every conversation whether asked or not. The cultlike nature of our fandom does not endear us to people who own/use other products.
Yes i agree, certainly not me and alot of us though.
here are also people who have used Fractal and prefer their old school amps for their particular application. When people pop up in threads saying things like "[the product I use] would make you throw all those old junk amps away", it makes people sour and that sort of taste builds up in your mouth over time and doesn't wear off.
, i have just seen alot of people, talk shit ,without trying both amps and fractal and saying stuff like it sounds digital crap etc.

I personally try to find the good in everything, without being biased. But yes i fully agree that when communities get cultlike that also breeds some bias and dislike.
 
So looking at the last comparison, looks like the Blue is muddy and crazy highs. Where the Purple has no real frequencies until 5-8k :tearsofjoy:
Still not there..........;)
 
So looking at the last comparison, looks like the Blue is muddy and crazy highs. Where the Purple has no real frequencies until 5-8k :tearsofjoy:
Still not there..........;)
You don't understand the meaning of the graphs. Ideally there should be NOTHING between the plateaus. Anything between is noise and/or aliasing. The amp has lots of thermal noise (hiss). The Axe-Fx has less thermal noise and nearly no aliasing.
 
Here's another comparison between the real amp (green), Axe-Fx (purple) and Product B (blue). I've reduced the sweep frequency so the first three harmonics are captured. The reason the Axe-Fx looks "better" than the amp is because there's less thermal noise than the real amp.

View attachment 89068
Are the spikes down low the real amp sweep from mains hum and its harmonics? Looks to be about 60, 120, and 240 Hz.
 
This is fascinating stuff. Is there a value where this noise is not perceived? Or is it more than just what is audible
 
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