Reverb in serial vs parallel....

E

Emerald Green

Inspired
I was watching Brett Kingman's video on how to get the brown sound.
It´s a great step by step tutorial on how to get there.
I have always used my reverb in series but after being inspired by Brett I
changed a couple of my main presets and inserted the reverb in parallel.
It is a huge difference. Everything is coming back alive with an almost breathing sound,
for a lack of a better word ...more natural.
I followed Brett´s recommendations and put the mix at 100% but backed down on the level to -3 to -5 db.
For you guys who haven´t tried it I highly recommend it - this rabbit hole is not so deep and it´s a pleasant one.
I don´t really understand the technical side of what makes it such a big difference
to use reverb (and fx) in parallel vs series so if someone has the knowledge and time I´ll appreciate
the guidance for a deeper understanding.
 
Totally Agree, I read the thread on the VH Cygnus before Burgs did the vid, and was struggling to get how to do that...to be honest I havent gone very far down the rabbit hole, more relying on others /factory presets & tweaking to my taste. Set up the patch per Burgs vid and really good info , as you say the reverb sounds great that way, so yes thanks Brett and will read this thread with interest to find any golden nuggets along the way....
 
Emerald Green said:
I was watching Brett Kingman's video on how to get the brown sound.
It´s a great step by step tutorial on how to get there.
I have always used my reverb in series but after being inspired by Brett I
changed a couple of my main presets and inserted the reverb in parallel.
It is a huge difference. Everything is coming back alive with an almost breathing sound,
for a lack of a better word ...more natural.
I followed Brett´s recommendations and put the mix at 100% but backed down on the level to -3 to -5 db.
For you guys who haven´t tried it I highly recommend it - this rabbit hole is not so deep and it´s a pleasant one.
I don´t really understand the technical side of what makes it such a big difference
to use reverb (and fx) in parallel vs series so if someone has the knowledge and time I´ll appreciate
the guidance for a deeper understanding.
Click to expand...
Is the video on YouTube? I’m interested in trying this out too
 
Isn't the mix knob in the block accomplishing the same task? I don't understand how there could possibly be a difference with running a single reverb in parallel vs serial. Are you sure you're actually hearing a difference? Not trying to be obstinate, I just don't get why there would be a difference.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Isn't the mix knob in the block accomplishing the same task? I don't understand how there could possibly be a difference with running a single reverb in parallel vs serial. Are you sure you're actually hearing a difference? Not trying to be obstinate, I just don't get why there would be a difference.
Click to expand...

I think its because in parallel, there is a 100% dry signal next to whatever your mixed reverb signal is, so there's more space if that makes sense? In parallel, you can get really washy without the usual loss of definition/clarity that comes with series.

Easy enough to try when you get a couple minutes. Actually I think my RV50 preset with parallel hall reverb is in the preset subforum.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Isn't the mix knob in the block accomplishing the same task? I don't understand how there could possibly be a difference with running a single reverb in parallel vs serial. Are you sure you're actually hearing a difference? Not trying to be obstinate, I just don't get why there would be a difference.
Click to expand...
Serial vs parallel isn't really the best way to describe it. The idea is to put all the wet to one side of the stereo image. There's an interesting variation on this where you double track the guitar and put dry and wet for each on opposite sides.
 
Budda said:
I think its because in parallel, there is a 100% dry signal next to whatever your mixed reverb signal is, so there's more space if that makes sense? In parallel, you can get really washy without the usual loss of definition/clarity that comes with series.

Easy enough to try when you get a couple minutes. Actually I think my RV50 preset with parallel hall reverb is in the preset subforum.
Click to expand...
But by the time it gets the the next block, doesn't it just mix it anyway? I could see in a live/analog(ish) setup how having a wet/dry/wet signal would be different & useful, as the center/dry cab would be pure and the wet amp(s) would be purely reverb or whatever, but in a modeler that outputs everything to L & R, I'm not seeing how it could make a difference. I guess, like you said, it's just something I'll have to try :)
GlennO said:
Serial vs parallel isn't really the best way to describe it. The idea is to put all the wet to one side of the stereo image. There's an interesting variation on this where you double track the guitar and put dry and wet for each on opposite sides.
Click to expand...
Hmm. I get that concept, but I didn't read that in the OP; he didn't mention anything about panning 100% L&R, but that does sound like a useful trick and would probably sound HUGE :cool:
 
I use a parallel path as I'm also running parallel IR'd/non-IR paths and want less reverb on the non-IR side.

In terms of the difference between using the mix knob vs parallel: the immediate result of the parallel path is that the dry signal never decreases, whereas turning the mix knob up reduces the dry signal. So there may be a little bit of psychoacoustic "parallel sounds better" because the dry level never changes. I don't have specific measurements/numbers, but it sounds like the dry signal starts to decrease somewhere in the 35% mix range and is probably 3db lower once you hit 50%. Not enough to sound like it has dropped significantly, but enough to make the dry signal recede a little bit.
 
I thought the "mix law" was that up to 50%, the dry level is constant, and then above 50 it decreases... (?) And maybe the law is different for reverb vs delay? Which is why...

...I've always preferred running delays and reverbs in parallel for anything like rock/funk/folk etc. I think of it like being a "Send effect" on a mixer, where you're just dialing in the amount of the effect based on the db on the fx level knob (and of course, how it sounds). It's easier for me to work with and think about that way, vs thinking about how changing from 20 to 25% is going to affect the effect ;-)

OTOH, if I was going for an ambient trippy sound, I'd run in series because then I don't want much or any dry signal.
 
I use reverb in parallel, 100% wet, at the end of the chain, controlling the amount of reverb via the level in, and in parallel also with any delays, also set up 100% wet and controlled by regulating input level. It gives me more places to exert control over the whole mess....
 
FractalAudio said:
If you are not panning the wet signal then there is no difference between parallel with 100% mix and series except for a difference in level. Any perceived difference is Fletcher-Munson.
Click to expand...

Panning the 'wet' signal is exactly why I set the reverb in Parallel ....
 
jefferski said:
I thought the "mix law" was that up to 50%, the dry level is constant, and then above 50 it decreases...
Click to expand...
Interesting; I wonder if this is true in the Axe Fx architecture. I know in my Korg Kronos, the effects mix are always a ratio:

15:85 ,75:25, 63:37... etc. so it's obvious that the dry signal decreases with even a little wetness.
 
For my use, series or parallel with a shunt is immaterial. What matters more is the reverb in series with (and after) the delay, or not. In other words, do the delay repeats get reverb or not. For the most part I like my repeats getting verb.
 
Ugly Bunny said:
Interesting; I wonder if this is true in the Axe Fx architecture. I know in my Korg Kronos, the effects mix are always a ratio:

15:85 ,75:25, 63:37... etc. so it's obvious that the dry signal decreases with even a little wetness.
Click to expand...

The Delay block has its own Mix Law on Fractal stuff as @jefferski mentioned. I don't believe the same law applies to the Reverb.

By the way, you can achieve the same effect of a parallel routed Reverb block by doing the following with Reverb in serial:

Mix: 50%
Level: -3dB (might be +3, not in front of my system now)
Input Gain: use this to control the reverb mix

Note that this is not the same as the VH thing, in which case the reverb is 100% wet on one side and none on the other.
 
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