Fractal: The Next Generation?

Deadpool_25 said:
Sensei (Cliff).

I'm not too proud to beg. Please consider building a floor-based modeler with full AxeFX power and functionality in a single form factor that is basically the size of the FM3+FC6. My heart gets all squishy just thinking about it.

Respectfully,
Deadpool_25

P.S. @Admin M@, go ahead and start a waitlist and put me at the top plzkthx. ❤️
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No please don’t - I already have II XL & FM3 - I would have to buy it!🤪
 
Not gonna happen most likely as it'd just be taking sales away from either unit, each already fulfilling whatever purpose with the addition of a fc6 or fc12
 
I would love something like this but I don't want the fan noise and I think that's going to be unavoidable.

If it's possible to get something between the power of the FM3 and Axe 3 with 6-8 switches and no fan noise, I'd pay $2,000.
 
FAS hasn't been the company to just jump on the bandwagon but I don't think that means they would ignore what competitor product trends. A few other companies have floor based flagships and L6 even has a floor unit and rack unit that (I think) have the same processing power. For me the FM3 is plenty powerful, I don't think I'd need an Axe III unless something changes, but I would love something that could run another reverb and 2 amps (not that I'd use it all the time but I used it on my Ultra quite often).

Another thought I have is that FAS could possibly just have the two different units on the same firmware allowing for less dev time (just more test time).
 
Iam8atman said:
FAS hasn't been the company to just jump on the bandwagon but I don't think that means they would ignore what competitor product trends. A few other companies have floor based flagships and L6 even has a floor unit and rack unit that (I think) have the same processing power. For me the FM3 is plenty powerful, I don't think I'd need an Axe III unless something changes, but I would love something that could run another reverb and 2 amps (not that I'd use it all the time but I used it on my Ultra quite often).

Another thought I have is that FAS could possibly just have the two different units on the same firmware allowing for less dev time (just more test time).
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Except Line 6 designed the Helix to be primarily a floor processor, the rack version came months after. So Line 6 designed the Helix line around the constraints of a floor unit, meaning the processor used was selected to work within the thermal conditions a floor enclosure provides. It's well-known that the Helix Rack has the same power so it really doesn't offer "better" modeling or more blocks per preset, etc... Also it has been said that the Helix is more or less comparable in terms of processing power to the AX8, so following the Line 6 line of thought Fractal could "easily" design an AX8 Rack version...

I mentioned that because FAS works the other way around... they design their flagship, the Axe-FX III as a rack unit to overcome any limitation they could have with a floor unit. You can't compare the sheer processor power of the Axe to the Helix, not even the Quad Cortex. Cliff has mentioned several times the processors in the Axe requires active cooling and to put them in a floor unit is a very difficult task.

You talk about "trends" but I absolutely hope FAS doesn't follow that path ever. I mean, Line 6 (to me anyways), Headrush, Hotone, Moore etc... designs products with the "weekend warrior"/hobbyist/guitar aficionado in mind whereas FAS and Kemper seems to strive to put out the very best in class for the pro musician first.
 
I think it's funny when people ask for this- as if Fractal has never thought of it. We will never know how many models and products that were discussed, planned and maybe even had prototypes built that never made it to production.

People claiming that Fractal doesn't create such a product in order to keep it from taking away from purchases of their other models simply haven't been around long enough to know better.
 

laxu said:
The next avenues in modeling could be things like cab/speaker modeling beyond IRs or at least with improved user interfaces like movable mics that mix together IRs like you see on ML Sound Lab MIKKO plugin. Huge lists of IR files is just a bad way to manage the cab sim.


Alternatively I'd gladly take a "FM0" that is just a brain with no footswitches and you buy a FC to put on the floor for switching. I know what you are saying, "That's an Axe-Fx 3!" but I specifically don't care for the rack format for its size, shape and weight. I'm thinking more of a desktop unit.
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You realize of course, that 'movable mics' in a UI are approximations. They may be good, and many aren't. The purists will never dig on this. Someone will have to convince me that this can be done convincingly.

As far as 'not caring for the rack format' ... You're shrugging off a convention that is simply the best solution equipment manufacturers of dozens of disparate technologies have settled on for decades.

I applaud your continued search for a better UI. When you settle on it, it will be a hoot for sure.
 
AJ Vargas said:
Except Line 6 designed the Helix to be primarily a floor processor, the rack version came months after. So Line 6 designed the Helix line around the constraints of a floor unit, meaning the processor used was selected to work within the thermal conditions a floor enclosure provides. It's well-known that the Helix Rack has the same power so it really doesn't offer "better" modeling or more blocks per preset, etc... Also it has been said that the Helix is more or less comparable in terms of processing power to the AX8, so following the Line 6 line of thought Fractal could "easily" design an AX8 Rack version...

I mentioned that because FAS works the other way around... they design their flagship, the Axe-FX III as a rack unit to overcome any limitation they could have with a floor unit. You can't compare the sheer processor power of the Axe to the Helix, not even the Quad Cortex. Cliff has mentioned several times the processors in the Axe requires active cooling and to put them in a floor unit is a very difficult task.

You talk about "trends" but I absolutely hope FAS doesn't follow that path ever. I mean, Line 6 (to me anyways), Headrush, Hotone, Moore etc... designs products with the "weekend warrior"/hobbyist/guitar aficionado in mind whereas FAS and Kemper seems to strive to put out the very best in class for the pro musician first.
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You can go pollute some other thread with your logic. Dreamcrusher. /dismiss


JoKeR III said:
I think it's funny when people ask for this- as if Fractal has never thought of it. We will never know how many models and products that were discussed, planned and maybe even had prototypes built that never made it to production.

People claiming that Fractal doesn't create such a product in order to keep it from taking away from purchases of their other models simply haven't been around long enough to know better.
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So you think people shouldn’t express a desire for things that don’t yet exist, simply because the company has already likely considered making those things but hasn’t yet done so? Hmmm. Truly no disrespect meant, but I think I’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
 
Deadpool_25 said:
So you think people shouldn’t express a desire for things that don’t yet exist, simply because the company has already likely considered making those things but hasn’t yet done so? Hmmm. Truly no disrespect meant, but I think I’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
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I'm all for wanting and hoping for things. My comment was tongue in cheek since a full-fledged "Axe on the floor" has been requested many, many times when the AX8 was launched and again when the FM3 was announced. It's quite possible that it's been requested going back to the Axe Fx Standard, but I'm only aware of requests since the AX8.
 
The FM3 with an FC-6 is in the cost territory of the Helix Floor, the Kemper Stage, and the upcoming Quad Cortex.

Fractal, being a smaller company, definitely doesn't have the financial resources of a Line6 (Yamaha) to turn out multiple form factors of their flagship product. Look what they've cranked out: The Helix Floor, LT, Stomp, Stomp XL AND the POD Go.

When Kemper introduced the Stage, they basically re-created the Toaster in a floor format (there may some shortcuts they took, I'm not up on those details). But I have to believe that in doing so, their Toaster sales slowed. Right? Wouldn't you agree?

I'm kinda curious what happens with the QC, with a Profiler and a modeler in one unit. Unless they are about 100% equally good, one is bound to lose support. My bet is that the Profiling wins out, because their modeling is no where close to FRACTAL in terms of tweakability.

I think Fractal is where they should be in terms of offerings that compete in the right market segments, and the products don't step on one another.
 
mikeyg said:
But I have to believe that in doing so, their Toaster sales slowed. Right? Wouldn't you agree?
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Likely only someone that works at Kemper would know this... And there's nothing to "agree" with. It's factual (one way or another) not an opinion ;)
 
unix-guy said:
Likely only someone that works at Kemper would know this... And there's nothing to "agree" with. It's factual (one way or another) not an opinion ;)
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I'm basing it on the fact that you offer nearly all of the prior functionality, in floor format, for less money, it leads me to believe the above.

unix-guy - just like a techie to get all overly-precise, heheh
 
squealie said:
You realize of course, that 'movable mics' in a UI are approximations. They may be good, and many aren't. The purists will never dig on this. Someone will have to convince me that this can be done convincingly.

As far as 'not caring for the rack format' ... You're shrugging off a convention that is simply the best solution equipment manufacturers of dozens of disparate technologies have settled on for decades.

I applaud your continued search for a better UI. When you settle on it, it will be a hoot for sure.
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I only care about the end result. These systems in NeuralDSP and ML Sound Lab plugins work by blending multiple IRs together afaik and to me it works great. I don't have to be a sound engineer who knows what some specific mic position means, I don't need to figure out some cryptic naming system for IR files. Moving the virtual mic gives easily understandable results.

I just don't care for the rack units. They make sense when there's more stuff you want to pile together but since an Axe-Fx 3 does pretty much everything you can think of having it in a rack on its own isn't that useful to me.
 
laxu said:
I only care about the end result. These systems in NeuralDSP and ML Sound Lab plugins work by blending multiple IRs together afaik and to me it works great. I don't have to be a sound engineer who knows what some specific mic position means, I don't need to figure out some cryptic naming system for IR files. Moving the virtual mic gives easily understandable results.
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That's thinking like a musician instead of an engineer. In other words, pretty much the opposite of the FAS design aesthetic :).
 
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