"Cherub Rock" - Set-up suggestions

If you want to try to mimic the record equipment, he did replace the stock JCM-800 tubes with KT88s, but I don't know what other changes resulting amp setting adjustments (bias settings? transformer settings?) you would have to do. Also, the Big Muff is the Op Amp version, which may not be the version in the Fractal. He was running the muff on full gain settings into a pretty clean head (KT88 doesn't overdrive as quickly as EL-34) and using the muff tone to find the exact spot where things turn a certain color.

On the other hand, the band didn't use the Big Muff Live, you lose definition trying to make that sound work in a really loud setting. You could follow Billy's lead there and consider using a higher gain amp. Last tip if you're interested, for the solo he's using tape flange, which the fractal has a model for. I messed with starting a patch for SD songs but I haven't really finished. Also need a phaser set to really slow rate to get a lot of the lead sounds.
Yeah - really good point that they didn't use the muff live. It might be worth watching one Billy's rig rundowns and copying that.

Note that you can set the Muff to Op Amp. I haven't noticed a difference, but my preset uses that (and KT88s in the amp) just for "accuracy"
 
Billy says here he uses the MXR Distortion II into a Big Muff for a lot of the Siamese Dream lead sounds. Pretty fun. He also goes over the Big Muff settings and the Phase 100 settings. Video here:
 
Here's a patch I threw together tonight. Just playing around with my Strat and dialing in some things by ear, I think it'll get you into the ballpark with a lot of the basic tones.
 

Attachments

  • Pumpkinesque.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 10
Yeah - really good point that they didn't use the muff live. It might be worth watching one Billy's rig rundowns and copying that.

Note that you can set the Muff to Op Amp. I haven't noticed a difference, but my preset uses that (and KT88s in the amp) just for "accuracy"
Oh thanks for the tip! I haven't checked out that detail level in the drive pedals yet but that's great to know!
 
Here's a patch I threw together tonight. Just playing around with my Strat and dialing in some things by ear, I think it'll get you into the ballpark with a lot of the basic tones.
Thanks - I will check that out tonight. Curious to see how you set the Phaser or other effects for the solo.

Last night I played the few presets I'd created at volume down at the studio. Anything with the Big Muff pedal was kind of a mess. Little discouraged even trying to dial that in any further. I got much closer to a usable live sound going with the high gain based preset. The Diezsel VH4 into two modern 4x12 cabs panned hard L and R has potential. Not as warm as I'd like, but I think its going to be a good base sound. So that's what I'm going to focus on. I definitely will try more vintage type cabs to see if I can warm it up a bit..
 
Thanks - I will check that out tonight. Curious to see how you set the Phaser or other effects for the solo.

Last night I played the few presets I'd created at volume down at the studio. Anything with the Big Muff pedal was kind of a mess. Little discouraged even trying to dial that in any further. I got much closer to a usable live sound going with the high gain based preset. The Diezsel VH4 into two modern 4x12 cabs panned hard L and R has potential. Not as warm as I'd like, but I think its going to be a good base sound. So that's what I'm going to focus on. I definitely will try more vintage type cabs to see if I can warm it up a bit..

It was just a really quick "by ear" thing I threw together. Originally I had the Mutron phaser for the solo until I watched that video above and saw that he used the MXR instead so I switched that out. The settings I dialed in for the fuzz aren't the same as Billy mentioned in the video, but I think it still sounds good. I used two drives together like he did.

An interesting thing to check out are the Cherub Rock stems that are circulating online from the Rock Band game. The guitars, in addition to there being no fewer than 3 (L/C/R) tracks at all times, are pretty bright and kind of harsh at times. When everything else is in the mix, though, they sit really nice. The bass track sounds pretty massive by itself, too. Interestingly, the bass is clean the whole time.
 
Originally I had the Mutron phaser for the solo until I watched that video above and saw that he used the MXR instead so I switched that out.
yep, used the script 90, but changed the order to 6 or 10 (can't remember), slowed it way down to .200. Tried taking the depth down, but then it just disappeared to me, so depth is back up to 4 I think. It's ok - not totally happy with it. Feel like I'm missing something. needs more work.

Interestingly, the bass is clean the whole time.
That's what I hear. After some folks recommended above that the bass should use fuzz, I went and listened to the song a few times, and to me, the fuzz sounds like its from guitars. Bass fuzz in my opinion would just make a mess. But then again, I'm often wrong in what I hear!
 
Yeah it's worth experimenting. Technically it's incorrect and technically you want a dozen guitars with slightly different amp EQ settings with a clean bass, but for a live trio bass fuzz and a crunchy (non fuzz) guitar might do the trick.
 
Personally, I don't think chasing the recorded sound is worthwhile if you are planning on playing it live. It's just a different animal. As has been said before, their live sound is different. What they did is musically still very effective live, and easier to obtain. The fact that they used a variety of gear live over the years makes it even easier. They didn't have "one sound" for it that they liked to use.
 
I grew up with Pumpkins and a fun side aspect of FM3 is setting up presets and scenes to play through the records. My style now is not very Pumpkiny so I wouldn't use these amps for my own music, but I still enjoy playing the songs from my teen years. It's pretty nice to be able to actually get close to the recorded tones for once. I set up play lists grouped by tuning in youtube music. I'm in early stages with the effects but I set up a Mellon Collie rig and a Siamese Dream rig. 3 scenes covers most songs: a clean sound (with or without delay depending on song), a heavy rhythm sound, and maybe an effect boosted solo section. Using headphones and doing everything on my PC so it's really easy for the first time in my life to play along to records I grew up with at reasonable volumes with great tones. So hard not to lose track of time and start to get pain in my wrists (alarm bells! Time to stop!!). My present day technique doesn't do that to me, but the way I learned these songs in the 90's includes a lot of bad habits from a posture and ergonomics perspective and I can't get it to sound right otherwise. Will have to keep experimenting and adjusting.
 
I just did one which sounds ok I think, give her a whir(l) ;)

The "Phase Solo" scene was a bit hastily slapped together so it may not suit. The clean and rhythm are fair I'd say though. I opted for Germanium clipping on the Muff just because I thought it held together a bit better but flip it to Op-Amp at your leeeeisure and see.
 

Attachments

  • Smashing Pumpkins.syx
    24.1 KB · Views: 8
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom