Highly compressed sound on high gain amps

I agree with trying another amp in the Axe. I know when I got mine there were a lot of amps that I tried, and I found some gems venturing out of my usual range of amps
 
Les Paul Rider said:
I have also tried the same preset with my Les Paul with burstbuckers pro and still sounding compressed to me,
I have two real amps, and a 2x12 with v30, I will try it tomorrow through the power amps, because my wife is sleeping right now, thank you for your help.

I wonder if anyone has tried plugging the headphones into a normal output, using a headphone amp as some have done in the first FM3 model that did not have a headphone output.
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Happy to help. It will sound very different through a tube amp's power section, so just keep that in mind. You will get a better idea of the sound though. If your real amp is a Mesa then that's great, you can use a Mesa amp sim to test, but if it is a Marshall, you are essentially taking a Mesa Mark amp and putting it into the power section of a Marshall. That will change your perception of the tone as well.
As far as plugging the headphones into the normal output using a headphone amp, I've never done that. The sound that I get using my headphones is different than using my monitors which is different than going through a power amp into my cabs. My IRs are 1x12 EVs the same as my real cabs. The point being, it's important to have the right expectations of the sound given where you are listening to it, even if a lot of it is as close as possible.
 
I tried your preset with my EMG loaded guitar. I wasn't able to get the cab working, but I used a stock cab that is very close.
It was a 1960A G12M from RW. I had to turn the output block down to -17. What you need to turn it down to may very well differ.
I definitely agree with trying a different amp model to see if anything gets you closer as well. Also, there was a lot going on with
your amp block. I had to reset it. I would suggest reading the Fractal Wiki for this amp model.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-usa-iic-and-iic-mesa-boogie-mark-iic.115442/

As far as the compressed sound goes, I hear what you are saying, part of it is the way the preset is set up, the other part is just the nature of headphones. They will not react the same as studio monitors or real guitar cabs. It would be the same if you had a tube amp and loaded it down
and used headphones through a load box. Anyhow, I hope that this helps.
 
Les Paul Rider said:
I have checked also the amp block meter in my original preset and with master at 4 I reach -10db max and with master at 10 I reach -0.2db
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To reach 0dB you should use the Level knob in the amp block, not the master.

Level just turns up volume. Master, like the master knob on your amp, also increases power amp compression/distortion.

NB: the meter you should look at is not the meter in the amp block labeled "Headroom" but the one in the OUT1 block.
 
Les Paul Rider said:
Thank you mr_fender for your reply,
I have tried doing the reset of the amp block, and then I used the setting you said, and to me still sounding compressed.
I have checked also the amp block meter in my original preset and with master at 4 I reach -10db max and with master at 10 I reach -0.2db, for this preset I'm using a Ltd with EMG 81-85. and my A/D Input Level is set to 11.4%

Maybe is just me, and the sound is just like this.
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That's not the meter they were talking about. That meter in the amp block is the power amp headroom. If it's very low the modelled power amp is barely working (like an amp down low), if it's starting to get in the in the -10 to -3 range then you're pushing your modelled power amp but not yet adding power amp distortion. If you're getting up near 0 then you're introducing power amp distortion which is further distortion/compresstion/etc.

When they mean about aiming for 0 is the global output meters. On axe edit, or if you switch your axe to layout view then zoom out you can see meters for the output level for the whole preset. They range from very negative to 0 to plus 18 db in the red. Aim for that to be around the 0 mark to give you a starting point for balancing your presets with eachother and leaving headroom for recording. Use the level knob on your amp to do this. You'll notice the level knob doesn't affect the headroom meter at all, as the level is just a straight output level after all the amp modelling.

Also, when you're playing with the level at 11.4% on the input, how is your guitar signal? Is it "tickling the red" on your input meters on the front of the unit? i.e., is it largely in the yellow range when playing but playing particularly hard will make the red flicker on? If your input level is too low then you might get a duller sound than you expect.
 
AndrewJay said:
Happy to help. It will sound very different through a tube amp's power section, so just keep that in mind. You will get a better idea of the sound though. If your real amp is a Mesa then that's great, you can use a Mesa amp sim to test, but if it is a Marshall, you are essentially taking a Mesa Mark amp and putting it into the power section of a Marshall. That will change your perception of the tone as well.
As far as plugging the headphones into the normal output using a headphone amp, I've never done that. The sound that I get using my headphones is different than using my monitors which is different than going through a power amp into my cabs. My IRs are 1x12 EVs the same as my real cabs. The point being, it's important to have the right expectations of the sound given where you are listening to it, even if a lot of it is as close as possible.
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Today I have been testing with the power amp of my marshall and my randall through my cab, and it really sounds much better. thanks for your help.
 
AndrewJay said:
I tried your preset with my EMG loaded guitar. I wasn't able to get the cab working, but I used a stock cab that is very close.
It was a 1960A G12M from RW. I had to turn the output block down to -17. What you need to turn it down to may very well differ.
I definitely agree with trying a different amp model to see if anything gets you closer as well. Also, there was a lot going on with
your amp block. I had to reset it. I would suggest reading the Fractal Wiki for this amp model.
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-usa-iic-and-iic-mesa-boogie-mark-iic.115442/

As far as the compressed sound goes, I hear what you are saying, part of it is the way the preset is set up, the other part is just the nature of headphones. They will not react the same as studio monitors or real guitar cabs. It would be the same if you had a tube amp and loaded it down
and used headphones through a load box. Anyhow, I hope that this helps.
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to test my preset, I have set my guitar input so low, because at 16 percent with an Em it hits red, but I definitely play with all the levels again, including this one.
Thanks for the link.
 
Les Paul Rider said:
Today I have been testing with the power amp of my marshall and my randall through my cab, and it really sounds much better. thanks for your help.
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I'm glad to hear that. Happy to help. Once you get a dedicated setup for your Axe and get more accustomed to making presets, it gets a lot easier and a lot more fun. Hang in there!
 
IronSean said:
That's not the meter they were talking about. That meter in the amp block is the power amp headroom. If it's very low the modelled power amp is barely working (like an amp down low), if it's starting to get in the in the -10 to -3 range then you're pushing your modelled power amp but not yet adding power amp distortion. If you're getting up near 0 then you're introducing power amp distortion which is further distortion/compresstion/etc.

When they mean about aiming for 0 is the global output meters. On axe edit, or if you switch your axe to layout view then zoom out you can see meters for the output level for the whole preset. They range from very negative to 0 to plus 18 db in the red. Aim for that to be around the 0 mark to give you a starting point for balancing your presets with eachother and leaving headroom for recording. Use the level knob on your amp to do this. You'll notice the level knob doesn't affect the headroom meter at all, as the level is just a straight output level after all the amp modelling.

Also, when you're playing with the level at 11.4% on the input, how is your guitar signal? Is it "tickling the red" on your input meters on the front of the unit? i.e., is it largely in the yellow range when playing but playing particularly hard will make the red flicker on? If your input level is too low then you might get a duller sound than you expect.
Click to expand...
you are right, I was just looking on the amp block meter, I just have the cab after the amp block, so I thought on the output meter would be the same value, but turn out is not, I've corrected that, thanks. I have turn up also my input 1 gain.
After reading the article that @AndrewJay shared to me, I've used the parameters that Cliff shared as his preference:

Model: USA IIC+ Input Drive: 8.1 / Overdrive: 9-10 / Bass: 1.0 / Midrange: 1.8 / Treble: 8.9 / Presence: 4.5 / MV: 4.0 / Level: -20 dB / Bright Switch ON EQ: 80 Hz: 4.8 / 240 Hz: 2.6 / 750 Hz: -4.5 / 2200: -0.2 / 6600: 0

There is video with John Petrucci on a demonstration of the original IIC+ with a recto 2x12 miked and it sounded exactly the same. lowering a bit more the 750Hz

I think the problem is that I really don't like the IIC++ sound.
 
Older Mark series amps are notoriously difficult to dial in. Also, don't overlook the bright and deep versions of the model too.
 
It's pretty similar to the IIC+ but more gain and more focused sounding. Turning Presence shift on and keep it set fairly low at around 3 works well for smoother leads. All the Mark series Boogies need very low bass setting to avoid getting flubby. 1 or less is not uncommon with guitars that have plenty of low end like Les Pauls. They also have a TON of midrange and can sound a bit honky with some pickups unless you pull some out with the typical Boogie V on the graphic EQ.
 
mr_fender said:
It's pretty similar to the IIC+ but more gain and more focused sounding. Turning Presence shift on and keep it set fairly low at around 3 works well for smoother leads. All the Mark series Boogies need very low bass setting to avoid getting flubby. 1 or less is not uncommon with guitars that have plenty of low end like Les Pauls. They also have a TON of midrange and can sound a bit honky with some pickups unless you pull some out with the typical Boogie V on the graphic EQ.
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+1.

The tone stack on a Boogie is pre-distortion. As you increase gain you want less bass into the distortion stages so the idea is you turn the bass down.

In later versions of the Boogies (TriAxis for example) they changed the taper so that noon was equivalent to 1 on earlier models because people are reticent to move controls very far from noon for some weird reason.
 
Sure sounds to me like the Master volume is all the way up...my HIGH GAIN amps never go above 5 or so, there's no needs and they will start to compress/clip at levels higher than that.
 
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