Lower output pickups + heavier music? Samples?

Hey guys,

So I just recently purchased a PRS SE CU24, looking for some new pickups. I have a couple shredder machines(a Japanese 570 with Evo/AN and a EBMM majesty with sonic ecstasys), so I’m looking for more of an all around guitar with this one.

The times I’ve played lower output pickups I really enjoyed the responsiveness, so I figured with this guitar I’d go with something lower on the output spectrum. Plus it’ll keep the guitar versatile - if I want to play something a little more subtle(seems to be the trend with me these days) I’m not hindering myself.

I’ve looked high and low, and trying to find guys using these style of pickups in samples for heavier music is... well it’s not easy... either that or the sample quality is garbage.

I realize some of the lower output options probably won’t be ideal for heavier music due to loose/muddy bass. Some of the ones I’m considering are the Suhr ssh, ssh+ and Aldrich. SD 59, 78 custom, pearly gates, AIIs, Seth lover(I feel like I’m missing one here). Dimarzio paf pro, 36th anniversary.

I’d like something that doesn’t have flubby bass and has decent clarity as well.

When I say heavier music, I’m not looking to do djent with this guitar, nor black metal or anything too crazy. I’d say the lowest it might see is c standard maybe.

Does anyone have any direct experience with the above options? Samples? Any other options to throw in?

thanks in advance
I think you’ll love some lower output pickups for heavy stuff. I’ve had the same $80 Seymour Duncan Alnico II Pro in my Les Paul for 20 years and can’t see myself ever changing it. It’s a clear but not harsh, and isn’t muddy. I like that you can use your bass knob without things getting too flubby.

Here’s the Alnico II Pro through a 5150 (not boosted). It sounds big and still has nice clarity with palm mutes and complex chords. Definitely worth checking out for an all-rounder pickup.

 
Wow, Im honestly in shock that you would recommend that pickup for anything other than a paperweight. But to each his own as they say!

Sidenote: I'll have two PAF-7's for sale shortly if your interested ;)

Sorry but I have to disagree too. I have a PAF7 in the bridge position and actually not even so close to the strings and there's not mud at all. It is a ceramic pickup that emulates alnico feel and quality without a flubby B string and it does it pretty good.

As I bought it, I was expecting that I would set the distance closer to the strings to compensate the low output. But almost all the way down is where I've found the best tonal character. It doesn't sound weaker than the high gain pups, you can just add a bit more gain on the amp and have a nice rounder and bit more saturated tone. It has a way more dynamics, so it feels also better to play - for players than appreciate and can handle the dynamics.
 
Sorry but I have to disagree too. I have a PAF7 in the bridge position and actually not even so close to the strings and there's not mud at all. It is a ceramic pickup that emulates alnico feel and quality without a flubby B string and it does it pretty good.

As I bought it, I was expecting that I would set the distance closer to the strings to compensate the low output. But almost all the way down is where I've found the best tonal character. It doesn't sound weaker than the high gain pups, you can just add a bit more gain on the amp and have a nice rounder and bit more saturated tone. It has a way more dynamics, so it feels also better to play - for players than appreciate and can handle the dynamics.

I don’t know what to tell you other than none of that is the case in my example. All my other heavy tone guitars have high output pickups and absolutely no issue getting the tone I want. My 7 with the PAF’s gets nowhere near close, so the common denominator in the problem is the low output PAF7’s. Those pickups were literally designed for lower, cleaner tone output. Simple as that as far as I can see.
 
Watching this thread. I have a PRS CE-24 with the HFS/VB pickups, which are way too compressed sounding for my taste, and am looking for something a little lower output and more dynamic.
 
What's the main complaint about the pickups you have now, and what tweaks have you made to your guitar to try and alleviate them? It's a lot easier to recommend stuff once we know exactly what you don't like about the current set and what setup tweaks did or didn't get closer to what you're after.

After having the guitar for a bit, my complaint is that the highs/high mids sound like there’s a blanket on them which causes all of it to smear. It’s a base tone issue, not an eq issue because it does it regardless of amp model.

Eq removes some of the blanket effect but it doesn’t alleviate the smearing.
 
After having the guitar for a bit, my complaint is that the highs/high mids sound like there’s a blanket on them which causes all of it to smear. It’s a base tone issue, not an eq issue because it does it regardless of amp model.

Eq removes some of the blanket effect but it doesn’t alleviate the smearing.
I had a PRS sc250, sc245, and a Custom 22. They all had the same thing you’re talking about (ended up selling both single cuts, but kept the Custom 22). Those guitars all played exceptionally well, but that “blanket” can take the fun out of things when the guitar doesn’t feel like it’s putting out what you’re putting into it when it’s going through an amp.

A quick fix is raising the pole pieces a good bit. It essentially makes the outer coil more prominent and gives you more string separation and note clarity. If that doesn’t work, it’s definitely time to rip out the pickups and try something else.
 
I had a PRS sc250, sc245, and a Custom 22. They all had the same thing you’re talking about (ended up selling both single cuts, but kept the Custom 22). Those guitars all played exceptionally well, but that “blanket” can take the fun out of things when the guitar doesn’t feel like it’s putting out what you’re putting into it when it’s going through an amp.

A quick fix is raising the pole pieces a good bit. It essentially makes the outer coil more prominent and gives you more string separation and note clarity. If that doesn’t work, it’s definitely time to rip out the pickups and try something else.

Thank you. I’ll give that a shot but I’m pretty sure this things gonna end up with new pickups by the end of the coming week.

For a $500(used) guitar this thing is amazing. After a setup this thing is right there with my EBMM Majesty as far as action goes. Much different feel but it’s amazing how well a relatively cheap guitar can play. I figured I’d be lusting after the real thing but aside from finish(and construction) I can’t see how it could get $3000 better. Maybe I’ll pick up a singlecut one of these days.
 
After having the guitar for a bit, my complaint is that the highs/high mids sound like there’s a blanket on them which causes all of it to smear. It’s a base tone issue, not an eq issue because it does it regardless of amp model.

Eq removes some of the blanket effect but it doesn’t alleviate the smearing.

Pop the cavity cover off and make sure the pots are all 500k. I had that when i put a JB in a strat and it was the 250k tone pot causing the issue.

It may also be the guitar itself and not the pickups, but you'd need to roll pickups to confirm.

Related, how old are the strings?
 
Pop the cavity cover off and make sure the pots are all 500k. I had that when i put a JB in a strat and it was the 250k tone pot causing the issue.

It may also be the guitar itself and not the pickups, but you'd need to roll pickups to confirm.

Related, how old are the strings?
Already considered the strings, but they sound pretty lively unplugged and look fresh so I don’t think it’s the root of the problem.

I’ll check the controls but it seems stock so I don’t think it’ll be an issue but who knows
 
Pots are both 500k

I figured they would be, but it's always good to check. Have you tweaked pickup height at all? Raising the treble side (or lowering the bass side) should either reduce or worsen the "blanket" thing going on. It may not totally fix the issue you're having with the guitar, but it may help for making pickup suggestions. Also give your tone pot a spin, make sure it's working correctly. Since most guitarists don't use it, there's the chance it's not working properly and it goes unchecked.

Before I forget to ask, do you have other hb-loaded guitars, do they have similar high end roll-off at all, and what scale length (24.75/25.5 etc) are they?
 
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I don’t know what to tell you other than none of that is the case in my example. All my other heavy tone guitars have high output pickups and absolutely no issue getting the tone I want. My 7 with the PAF’s gets nowhere near close, so the common denominator in the problem is the low output PAF7’s. Those pickups were literally designed for lower, cleaner tone output. Simple as that as far as I can see.

Like you wrote: "the tone YOU want". It's surely a matter of preference. Since we're discussing allrounder pups with lower output here, it is another category than what you are looking for.

I like metal among other genres but when I play metal, I like better and warmer responsiveness, where I can control the dynamics with my picking hand. I don't like high output circuits, where I just lay my hand on the strings and the guitar is already playing on its own. To me it is like the difference between LED light bulb and the older red yellowish ones with more warmth.

I don't say that the PAF7 is the best pup on the market but it certainly does its job, for those who like lower output for the mentioned reasons. But I would always recommend experimenting with the pickup hight, it has the most prominent effect on the guitar sound. I've myself only recently started taking a screwdriver in my hand to try it from all the way up to all the way down and to think about what do I like or I don't like with all the positions. When I find the sweet spot, it's obvious...I forget what I was doing and get lost in the playing. But you don't know what your pup is really sounding like, before you test it thoroughly with a screwdriver. Don't trust the factory settings...it's personal preferences again.
 
I figured they would be, but it's always good to check. Have you tweaked pickup height at all? Raising the treble side (or lowering the bass side) should either reduce or worsen the "blanket" thing going on. It may not totally fix the issue you're having with the guitar, but it may help for making pickup suggestions. Also give your tone pot a spin, make sure it's working correctly. Since most guitarists don't use it, there's the chance it's not working properly and it goes unchecked.

Before I forget to ask, do you have other hb-loaded guitars, do they have similar high end roll-off at all, and what scale length (24.75/25.5 etc) are they?

All my others are 25.5, and no high end blanket on those.

When I say blanket, it’s not excessively pronounced... it’s subtle. Playing it I can tell it’s there but it isn’t like the tone knob is rolled back or anything.

With that said, the tone knob is working as it should. The only weird thing I noticed is there’s a capacitor on the volume pot, but after doing some research I noticed it’s a common thing, at first I was like wtf because none of my other guitars have that, but it’s supposed to let more highs through when you roll the volume off(which it does after testing that haha).
 
You may just be noticing the shorter scale then. Look for a used JB and a used alnico pro II and record the same settings (with fresh strings) for each pickup and sell the one you like least lol.

It could also just be a darker sounding guitar.
 
You may just be noticing the shorter scale then. Look for a used JB and a used alnico pro II and record the same settings (with fresh strings) for each pickup and sell the one you like least lol.

It could also just be a darker sounding guitar.
I may give this a shot. Used JBs and AIIs are easy to find. Might throw the 59 in there too
 
Definitely was the pickup.

Ended up finding a Suhr SSH+ locally for a good price, so snagged it. Guitar sounds better. It’s a little higher output than I wanted but the blanket is gone. I may still try a JB/AII to lower the output some and throw this in another guitar.

Glad to know it wasn’t a guitar thing!
 
Definitely was the pickup.

Ended up finding a Suhr SSH+ locally for a good price, so snagged it. Guitar sounds better. It’s a little higher output than I wanted but the blanket is gone. I may still try a JB/AII to lower the output some and throw this in another guitar.

Glad to know it wasn’t a guitar thing!
The SSH+ isn't as dark as other pickups with similar output. It's like a JB but not as congested and peaky.
 
The SSH+ isn't as dark as other pickups with similar output. It's like a JB but not as congested and peaky.
I’m gonna give it a good workout later on this evening after the kid goes to sleep and see how I feel about it. Too much stuff that needs to be done around the house to really “get to know it” today
 
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