China

Chinese typically very proudly buy imported stuff :D

I am also very happy of buying imported stuff when it is good quality for a good price. I do not have any sense of patriotic pride at all. I was born in Barcelona, between two antagonist nationalist factions and separatist movements (Spanish/Catalan aka Barça/Madrid) and I realized that it was a stupid confrontation between my common friends. I believe in humanity, not in flags or borders.
 
Last edited:
I do have the desire to buy in the USA if I can. But mainly because I want to help American businesses...not the flag. I will fight (again) for my country if I had to. I didn't buy a PRS because it's made in America. I didn't buy USA Deluxe Strats because they were made in America. I bought them because I wanted them-period! I play quite a bit of acoustic. Started out first 10 years on acoustic. I have 3, as mentioned above, all made in Japan-killer guitars.
 
Do folks living in China feel the same pride when they can buy nearly everything that says “made in China”, as we do in the US when we try to buy “made in the USA” stuff ?
They are extremely proud...to sell them... They will go the extra mile to buy foreign made items to get better quality/trustable product.
We are talking about a place where you have to hire experts to validate that house or apartment you want to rent is not going to collapse or were baby formula can be poisonous or where people explain you have to bribe doctors at hospital to get decent treatment...
(All first hand points...)

Disclaimer: I am tibetan Buddhist, married to a Taiwanese citizen and worked in Taiwan and loved the people... So I do have a bias against mainland China...
 
"bias against..." doesn't sound Buddhist ;) 🙏
Been Buddhist does not mean you have to accept bad things because of karma. On the contrary, there are some important teachings saying the exact contrary ;-)

But it's the Buddhist way to not hide my opinions behind carefully selected facts, somehow my approach to mid way 😋

For the note, this is a point of discordance with Chinese Tibetan Buddhists praticionners. Where talking about the dalai lama is... Forbidden 😐
(Groups been actively monitored by the Chinese government...)

Sorry for the some kind of out-of-topic 😅
 
Mahayana Buddhism has a different perspective than the Theravada Buddhism that I'm learning in Thailand, from the Forest Monks.
But let's close that parenthesis here. We are not supposed to dig into that at this forum :)
 
If the end result is the same, does it really matter if it was "Made in the USA"? I doubt fractal products would greatly improve if they weren't made in China. I am a young working middle class dude who most certainly couldn't afford to pay the price for all "Made in the USA" products.
 
If the end result is the same, does it really matter if it was "Made in the USA"? I doubt fractal products would greatly improve if they weren't made in China. I am a young working middle class dude who most certainly couldn't afford to pay the price for all "Made in the USA" products.

It all comes down to working with a decent outfit and practicing due diligence regarding Quality Control - no-matter who you do business with. I read somewhere, I think, that Fractal eyeballs each unit they sell. ..Pretty-much gotta be done no-matter where a thing is made.. As for the manufaturing side of things.. You will get great quality from China, or utter crap. Same here, in the Good Old US-of-A ..

Fractal are known for quality, reliable products.. Made in China just means a more affordably made quality product is all, ...which means a lower possible retail price - which means a larger pool of end consumers being able to afford the finished product. This Keeps everybody happy..

Lower prices = more customers which keeps Fractal operational.

It means Firmware Fridays keeps on being a sorta-thing :0)

..We obviously want what these guys are peddling, and they can keep producing as long as the operational costs balance out. China helps with all that. ...So will the next China, and the China after that. All these Chinas do is keep American innovators in a position to where they can continue to keep doing their thing.
 
I have been involved in manufacturing production since the mid 90s. I've had manufacturers in the USA crap the bed in terms of quality that needed to rework or remake stuff, I've also had that happen in China, India, Thailand, and Singapore.

The nation state, political regime, or flag do not ensure quality. People working the lines and having pride in their work ensure quality at a price point, which is possible anywhere in the world. Made in USA doesn't always equal quality or value.

How much the prevailing wage is in each locale for a motivated and skilled worker really determines the price point you are able to offer a product at and still remain a viable business.

That's my experience, YMMV.
 
Last edited:
I think the underlying issue can't truly be discussed on this forum and that is why (I believe anyway) that the made in USA comments are being posted. For one to want support their national economy is a good thing as it can promote prosperity.

To stare the obvious in the face all one really needs to do is use reason and common sense!
 
I think the underlying issue can't truly be discussed on this forum and that is why (I believe anyway) that the made in USA comments are being posted.
Well, gee, I thought I came pretty close, here and here. But you're right, one has to be careful. (My version of "careful" is to write things so ponderously analytical that half the folks skip 'em...but at least I don't wind up looking like an unhinged firebrand. ;) )

For one to want support their national economy is a good thing as it can promote prosperity.
Yep, but within limits and always making a distinction between "long-term, goals-compatible" friends and short-term "allies-of-convenience" whose goals and ideology really aren't compatible. Within the context of genuine friendly relations, one tries (as much as possible) to say, "Your good is my good" ...but one can't do that, with the other kind. (See here.)

To stare the obvious in the face all one really needs to do is use reason and common sense!
Well, yes.

But isn't there an old saying about that? Something like, "The hardest thing in the world is to keep seeing what's right in front of you." It's why we have concepts like "the elephant in the room" and "Ugh Fields."

OTOH, sometimes problems are already going away, gradually, until someone rips the bandage off by talking about them, stirring up bad feelings that impede healing, and prompting nothing to speed the process up. In those cases, one can still look at the problem (in the sense of remaining aware of it) as long as one carefully avoids saying unhelpful things about it.

Sigh. Humans. I like us, and I hope we'll turn out okay, but some days I just want to turn in my membership card and go find another club.
 
Yep, but within limits and always making a distinction between "long-term, goals-compatible" friends and short-term "allies-of-convenience" whose goals and ideology really aren't compatible. Within the context of genuine friendly relations, one tries (as much as possible) to say, "Your good is my good" ...but one can't do that, with the other kind. (See here.)


"Innocent" question: why we do not hear many concerns about "incompatible goals and ideology" regarding the deeply rooted business partnership of the USA with KSA but we do with China? I mean: the title of this topic is "China", and we can also read that title every single day at the frontpage of BBC/CNN/etc. Why focus the attention on "incompatibilities" with China and not with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or other partners?

Another way to approach this: Why the topic title is "China" and not "Mexico", "Vietnam" or, "India"? Why that fixation? Are we just talking about offshoring or is it about specifically targeting China? Is that the result of the daily propaganda of the western mainstream media against China?
 
Last edited:
"Innocent" question: why we do not hear many concerns about "incompatible goals and ideology" regarding the deeply rooted business partnership of the USA with KSA but we do with China? I mean: the title of this topic is "China", and we can also read that title every single day at the frontpage of BBC/CNN/etc. Why focus the attention on "incompatibilities" with China and not with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or other partners?

Another way to approach this: Why the topic title is "China" and not "Mexico", "Vietnam" or, "India"? Why that fixation? Are we just talking about offshoring or is it about specifically targeting China? Is that the result of the daily propaganda of the western mainstream media against China?

Maybe it has something to do with manufacturing? that was mentioned in the OP.
 
"Innocent" question: why we do not hear many concerns about "incompatible goals and ideology" regarding the deeply rooted business partnership of the USA with KSA but we do with China? I mean: the title of this topic is "China", and we can also read that title every single day at the frontpage of BBC/CNN/etc. Why focus the attention on "incompatibilities" with China and not with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or other partners?

Another way to approach this: Why the topic title is "China" and not "Mexico", "Vietnam" or, "India"? Why that fixation? Are we just talking about offshoring or is it about specifically targeting China? Is that the result of the daily propaganda of the western mainstream media against China?
Good questions. The CEOs who made the decision in the 80s and 90s to move their manufacturing overseas weren't Chinese, they were American.
And hopefully, we can dispel the notion that they did it simply to keep prices low. Increasing their personal compensation was top of the list. Just check and see what happened to CEO pay starting in those decades. It's obscene.
Don't blame China for what Americans did to themselves, for want of cheaper prices, disregard for labor and indifference to the oligarchy.
Businesses the size of Fractal are largely constrained by decisions made by Americans four decades ago.
 
Back
Top Bottom