Testosterone Replacement Therapy - What dose does your doc prescribe?

Not looking for arguments here either. But surely some logic has to play a part? Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But the illogicality of someone not having proper pharmaceuticals due to the perception of risks but happy to take oral supplements of who-knows-what, that hasn't been scientifically tested, not regulated by the TGA or the FDA, and without any evidence to back up some outlandish claims (like "supports testosterone" or "boosts immunity") is not logical at all?

I've had patients who are on medically-prescribed anticoagulants but who ran into big trouble (one had a cerebral bleed) because they also took St John's Wort which was "harmless because it is only a supplement". St John's Wort has powerful anticoagulant properties, so the patients anticoag control got so way out of whack that one had a cerebral bleed and a stroke. Totally preventable. The point being that supplements and alternative "natural" therapies can be way more dangerous than proper pharmaceuticals. Let's face it - the stuff you get at Chemist Warehouse doesn't even have to go through ANY clinical trials or peer-reviewed testing at all. None, zero, zip, zilch. Yet pharmaceuticals are tested to the nth degree, and most side effects and complications are well known and documented.

OK - not the time or place to carry on an argument or debate about this any more, so I'll butt out. Might go and play some guitar as alternative therapy... ;)
Agreed....folks will ingest anything from GNC and think nothing of it. Wild wild west supplements. Yet they turn their nose up at testosterone. I say stop playing around with all the BS supplement crap and just go to the tried and true winner that has been in use for many many decades.

With proper medical oversight, it is certainly something folks should look into.
 
I'd just point out that your question is probably inappropriate to be asking on a guitar equipment forum. Doses vary widely (as you mention) depending on the levels, and the cause of the deficiency. We're not talking about using it as a gym junkie or for body building - I'm referring to its use as a replacement therapy.

As a medico myself, I wouldn't be responding to your question with specific dosages. Check with your specialist endocrinologist if you're concerned.
Doc...I'm not saying anyone use the dose that someone else uses. I just want to know the range of prescribes out there. I mean this is the "Lounge" section of the forum, so it does not have to be about music. Plenty on here post about dead pets and other topics.
 
Testosterone supplements don't do the job. You'd need a jab of pharmaceutical grade testosterone from your GP. The doses vary from GP to the next, ranging from 100mg to 200mg, 200 probably too much for the job that needs to be done.

FYI, the steroids guys, they take at least 500mg a week. 😉

Yes that mg range is common for test. I hear some guys saying their doctor is stating to take once every 2 weeks. Once a week is better to keep a more stable amount in the system.
 
Yes that mg range is common for test. I hear some guys saying their doctor is stating to take once every 2 weeks. Once a week is better to keep a more stable amount in the system.

The frequency of the doses depends on the formulation of the testosterone. Some are very long lasting, with long half-lives, and if you have those too frequently they build up to abnormal levels. Others have shorter half lives and are dosed more frequently.

If it is for replacement therapy, and not for abnormal use (eg body building etc), then the aim would be to maintain a NORMAL level of testosterone in the blood, with no sharp peaks and no big dips. Fairly constant, and normal range stuff. But if you use a long-acting, slow-release formulation too frequently, then levels can gradually (and quite rapidly - just a few weeks) build up to abnormal levels, causing all sorts of side effects from acne to liver failure, and testicular shrinkage.

That last one is one that many people don't expect or understand - testosterone is made by the testes, and there is a feedback system - when blood levels are normal, there is negative feedback (i.e. suppression) of hormones from the pituitary (LH and FSH) that usually stimulate testosterone production. So it's self regulating. But if you administer exogenous testosterone (i.e. from a syringe rather than from the testes), that triggers the negative feedback to the pituitary, and switches off the LH and FSH production - it's not needed. But one of the results of that is the testes start to shrink and atrophy, as they are no longer being "driven" by the pituitary.

So - testosterone replacement therapy is OK as long as you don't mind a bit of testicular atrophy. But testosterone accumulation to abnormally high levels not only can cause the testicular atrophy, but also causes all sorts of other side effects mentioned above.

It's not "one size (or dose) fits all..."
 
hi Tremonti,
sorry - my question wasn’t clear.
why is this therapy required? I am not a medical professional, though I do have close contact with a number of them. From your question, I get the feeling that this is a common thing around your area, and I’m wondering why I don’t know about the symptoms that lead to seeking this therapy, or the side effects.
thanks
pauly

Because I'm curious to see what other people are being prescribed in dose and frequency. Folks I have talked to, there is a wide variety of protocol. Lots of doctors that do not know much about it and it shows in their prescription.
 
hi Tremonti,
sorry - my question wasn’t clear.
why is this therapy required? I am not a medical professional, though I do have close contact with a number of them. From your question, I get the feeling that this is a common thing around your area, and I’m wondering why I don’t know about the symptoms that lead to seeking this therapy, or the side effects.
thanks
pauly

Essentially it's the male equivalent to HRT in the ladies. Once past menopause, females change their hormonal balance significantly, and many do not like the results. Hence - hormone replacement therapy (HRT) with the emphasis being on the "replacement". Not higher levels than normal, just restoring a more pre-menopausal balance of normal levels of oestrogen and progesterone.

Males tend to produce less testosterone as we get older, so replacement therapy is sometimes used to restore levels if the symptoms warrant it. Strength, energy, libido, etc are all affected by testosterone, and if a patient is getting the effects of low testosterone levels - and importantly, if they don't like it (not all men dislike it), then testosterone replacement therapy can be used to restore some strength, energy, libido etc.

Not guaranteed to work though - in some men, the testosterone receptors at the cell level also seem to have reduced ability to respond to the hormone, so no amount of it will make you 18 years old again. Everyone's mileage may vary. But that is what it's used for - replacement.

As mentioned above, we are NOT talking about the silly practice of using testosterone to raise your blood levels to abnormally high, as that can be dangerous. But many men do it, regardless. A certain ageing film actor is renowned for using testosterone and human growth hormone (HGH) in high doses to try and ward off the effects of ageing. It's not working. And he got sprung by Customs trying to import a load of the stuff into Australia a few years ago... Silly bugger!
 
The first thing you need to do is to go to your GP and get your bloods done. The test results will show you exactly where your testosterone levels are.
 
hi Tremonti,
sorry - my question wasn’t clear.
why is this therapy required? I am not a medical professional, though I do have close contact with a number of them. From your question, I get the feeling that this is a common thing around your area, and I’m wondering why I don’t know about the symptoms that lead to seeking this therapy, or the side effects.
thanks
pauly
It is not required but can help if you have issues with fat loss, muscle gain, sex drive and overall sense of well being. Research this more to learn if you would like.
 
The frequency of the doses depends on the formulation of the testosterone. Some are very long lasting, with long half-lives, and if you have those too frequently they build up to abnormal levels. Others have shorter half lives and are dosed more frequently.

If it is for replacement therapy, and not for abnormal use (eg body building etc), then the aim would be to maintain a NORMAL level of testosterone in the blood, with no sharp peaks and no big dips. Fairly constant, and normal range stuff. But if you use a long-acting, slow-release formulation too frequently, then levels can gradually (and quite rapidly - just a few weeks) build up to abnormal levels, causing all sorts of side effects from acne to liver failure, and testicular shrinkage.

That last one is one that many people don't expect or understand - testosterone is made by the testes, and there is a feedback system - when blood levels are normal, there is negative feedback (i.e. suppression) of hormones from the pituitary (LH and FSH) that usually stimulate testosterone production. So it's self regulating. But if you administer exogenous testosterone (i.e. from a syringe rather than from the testes), that triggers the negative feedback to the pituitary, and switches off the LH and FSH production - it's not needed. But one of the results of that is the testes start to shrink and atrophy, as they are no longer being "driven" by the pituitary.

So - testosterone replacement therapy is OK as long as you don't mind a bit of testicular atrophy. But testosterone accumulation to abnormally high levels not only can cause the testicular atrophy, but also causes all sorts of other side effects mentioned above.

It's not "one size (or dose) fits all..."

Yes there are many esters with Enanthate and Cypionate being what is prescribed in US and Europe most prevalently. These esters have been shown to be better suited for a once or even twice a week dosage. Yet many docs do every 2 weeks with these esters. Yes there are shorter esters and longer, but they are not prescribed typically. In fact Europe uses Sustanon 250 a lot, which is a blend of esters. Why the US does not utilize Sustanon blended esters I do not know.
 
Essentially it's the male equivalent to HRT in the ladies. Once past menopause, females change their hormonal balance significantly, and many do not like the results. Hence - hormone replacement therapy (HRT) with the emphasis being on the "replacement". Not higher levels than normal, just restoring a more pre-menopausal balance of normal levels of oestrogen and progesterone.

Males tend to produce less testosterone as we get older, so replacement therapy is sometimes used to restore levels if the symptoms warrant it. Strength, energy, libido, etc are all affected by testosterone, and if a patient is getting the effects of low testosterone levels - and importantly, if they don't like it (not all men dislike it), then testosterone replacement therapy can be used to restore some strength, energy, libido etc.

Not guaranteed to work though - in some men, the testosterone receptors at the cell level also seem to have reduced ability to respond to the hormone, so no amount of it will make you 18 years old again. Everyone's mileage may vary. But that is what it's used for - replacement.

As mentioned above, we are NOT talking about the silly practice of using testosterone to raise your blood levels to abnormally high, as that can be dangerous. But many men do it, regardless. A certain ageing film actor is renowned for using testosterone and human growth hormone (HGH) in high doses to try and ward off the effects of ageing. It's not working. And he got sprung by Customs trying to import a load of the stuff into Australia a few years ago... Silly bugger!
I think Stallone looks pretty damn great for 72. Seems to be able to work out like a 35 year old. Not seeing much wrong with his approach. But I'm sure he is supervised by an elite physician(s).
 
Anyone who puts anything in their body without knowing what it is and what the potential benefits and negative effects are is simply foolish. We owe it to ourselves to do the research on anything we take. If someone decides that prescribed Testosterone is best for them, great! If another chooses to go with an alternative supplement, great! As long as they've done the due diligence of vetting what they decide on.
 
Exercises like squats and deadlifts can increase test and GH output, but at nominal levels. Nothing like therapy.
They do improve the boning ability, as well as muscle mass and strength. That's all I really need from my testosterone.
 
In fact Europe uses Sustanon 250 a lot, which is a blend of esters. Why the US does not utilize Sustanon blended esters I do not know.

Sustanon is the one most commonly used in Australia, too. But it's always a balance between half-life, blood levels, and individual responses. The rate at which the various esters are metabolized can vary from patient to patient - it's not constant. Also, as I mentioned, the ability of the receptors to react to the hormone varies - usually decreasing - as we age, to varying degrees. That's why dosage has to be monitored by blood levels.
 
Sustanon is the one most commonly used in Australia, too. But it's always a balance between half-life, blood levels, and individual responses. The rate at which the various esters are metabolized can vary from patient to patient - it's not constant. Also, as I mentioned, the ability of the receptors to react to the hormone varies - usually decreasing - as we age, to varying degrees. That's why dosage has to be monitored by blood levels.
Sustanon would a great one to use as it has 4 esters, from quick release to slow. You probably would only need a shot every 3 weeks
 
Don't do it. A guy I know was doing it and it caused cancer.
Are you sure it wasn't the bacon? Or the daily sunlight? Or the endocrine disruptors in the lining of the tin cans? Or cooking your meat on a dry heat instead of poaching it or going vegan (and boiling all the veggies)?

TRT can do wonders for a lot of (particularly older) men and seriously improve their quality of life. If you're going to say things like this, you should probably explain the causal mechanism ("it caused cancer" is a serious claim), or at least acknowledge the other known sources of carcinogens and cancer risk like those I listed above.
 
Nothing beats a healthy lifestyle and routine of clean eating, daily physical and mental exercise, and proper recovery (sleep).

I tested to have the T levels of a 20 year old this spring at 45 years old thanks to changing my life 5 years ago where I tested to having levels of a 60 year old.

no pills, no doctors, no surgery, no medicine.
 
It really depends upon what your baseline levels are and what your GP is targeting as your enhanced level.

Asking what is your dose prescribed without knowing the starting point level and goal level is kind of steering you down an odd path.

There's also questions regarding thyroid function and individual response that play into that equation too.
 
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