Year and half later; still not happy with Axe-Fx 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Try less gain!
Also play with the MV! Some high gain amps don't want to go above 3-4!
This took me a while to figure out way before I got the iII. Admittedly, sometimes my hard head still gets in my own way.

Hope you find what you want easier/better than me!
 
Given that the Axe is capable of virtually infinite sounds, tones, effects, etc, then if you can't find one you like, by the process of elimination, it must be user error. There is a reason that so many top players use Axe Fx3 units (and Helix, Ampero, and other modellers), and I doubt they can all be wrong. It really is just a case of knowing how to dial in the sound you hear in your head.
 
Wanted to thank everybody for checking it out. You guys are awesome. I got the AustinBuddy pack and its great. I'm getting whatever it was I thought I was missing. I'm certain my unit is not messed up. I was just wasn't programming it correctly. I was able to match the tones I was hearing in the youtube video I had posted. Also I found one of the ENGL presets to be a like spot on 90s euro power metal sound like Blind Guardian and Gamma Ray. Which has been awesome to play.

Much better now. Just gotta learn and develop my ear more.

Thanks! You all rock!
 
Wanted to thank everybody for checking it out. You guys are awesome. I got the AustinBuddy pack and its great. I'm getting whatever it was I thought I was missing. I'm certain my unit is not messed up. I was just wasn't programming it correctly. I was able to match the tones I was hearing in the youtube video I had posted. Also I found one of the ENGL presets to be a like spot on 90s euro power metal sound like Blind Guardian and Gamma Ray. Which has been awesome to play.

Much better now. Just gotta learn and develop my ear more.

Thanks! You all rock!

I thought I had a sweet a$$ preset dialed in based off the Plexi factory when I first got the AxeFx3. I was coming from an AX8 and I'm pretty comfortable with knowing where to look to tweak to get the sound that I like. Of course my AX8 tone was based off an Austin Buddy Naked Amp tone that I tweaked to make my own. So, I decided, what the heck, and bought the Austin Buddy pack. And the tone I originally crafted is a thin sounding tone that probably sounds good, except that I've dialed in on from Austin Buddy's preset that I'm completely happy with. And it just sounds larger and more amp in the room (dare I say that?). Definitely an upgrade from my out of the box dialed in tone.

One of the things I always do is I put some mid boost in the input EQ section of the amp. It's a tip from Cliff's tech notes "about EQ" or something. He spelled out an exercise where you add a PEQ w/ a mid boost before the signal hits the amp. And it focuses the tone for me. It cleans up some mush. And I also believe that the EQ range or boost amount in the input EQ is dependent on your pickups. But..... Before you get to that, you should have a tone you're already happy with. AB's are ready made. Guess we need shout out to @austinbuddy
 
Well others have put it far more eloquent,.....I would say stay far far away from the tone match block as possible for building a sound.
Its a great resource for things like piezo pickups to sound closer to mic'd acoustics if done right but it might be a fun thing to play with trying to sound like an album but those tones generally will NOT work for real life applications.
 
Well others have put it far more eloquent,.....I would say stay far far away from the tone match block as possible for building a sound.
Its a great resource for things like piezo pickups to sound closer to mic'd acoustics if done right but it might be a fun thing to play with trying to sound like an album but those tones generally will NOT work for real life applications.

Yeah tone match block I think is only for if you wanna copy an exact sound but honestly, you shouldn't want to copy someone's sound. You wanna find YOUR sound. Whoever your guitar heroes are, you can sound like you much better than they can!
 
I was going to say I found I had a very similar approach to Leon esp with using the looper to get through all those IR's.....hands down your biggest battle!!! Try to cut through the honky or muffled ones and find a nice neutral IR.

Try taking a patch from maybe one or two FW's away from the latest FW release MAX from Leon/Samhill(?)/Freman and reverse engineer it to get it close to what you want.

It surprising how some of the really good high gain patches DON'T have a lot of noise to them the way they are dialed in and are very dynamic to pick attack etc. With the right IR you won't need as much gain.
 
I've been working with Fractal amp models and Cab IRs for over ten years now. My informed opinion is that there are three main issues for newbies to getting that elusive "amp in a room" sound.

First, they don't have a great FRFR playback system. You are not getting to get a 4x12 Marshall "amp in my room" sound on a preset coming out of a little 8" stereo monitor. A good FRFR Monitor - the good ones aren't the cheaper ones -- is the solution. I'm partial to a one or a pair of Atomic NEO CLRs myself, but I now have a Mission Gemini 2 2x12 that is growing me on too and really sounds like an amp!

Second, newbies often do not gain stage and level their presets and the hardware settings for audio output properly. So the sound may actually be great BUT it won't sound right if the level is too low for playback (or too high).

It's weird when you first discover it, but I have dialed in presets that were simply "uninspiring sounding" as I turned the amp LEVEL knob -- until all of a sudden -- bam - at the right db level, it all clicked and filled the room with a great balanced sound.

The Fletcher Munson effect (Google it) is a real thing. If you want an amp in the room sound, you have to play as LOUD as an amp in the room to get there. Not horribly loud, but at least at -92db (get a db meter App on your smart phone) so the Fletcher Munson effect does not play tricks on your ears and fool you.

This is why presets dialed in at bedroom levels and may sound great played low at home, but all of a sudden sound horrible at your band practice or gig -- too much lows, too many highs, not enough mids, etc. The guitar is a MIDs instrument, and the juicy meat of the electric guitar is between 200Hz to 500Hz and the other definition is the stuff between 500hz and around 2.5kHz.

Last, I am more convinced than ever after 10 years that finding and using the RIGHT CAB IR IS ESSENTIAL to getting a great sound for live playing. Unfortunately you have to really search -- 90%+ of IRs available will not work well - based on the mic used and position, there are not enough or too little bass/mids/treble for a good live sound (but can work for a recording or mix though in some cases).

Lots of people use the Royer 121 and SM57 mix and it can work if the IRs are captured right. But my favorite guitar mic/IR is the Beyer Dynamic M160. That's the key mic Eddie Kramer captured all those great Hendrix, Page, and Stones guitar tones on (blended with other mics and treated further at the mixing board to be sure).

I find that if you can locate a perfect M160 Cab IR capture, that alone is all you need for most amps. I usually start looking at those, then the Royers, then blend an SM57 in if it needs some further "bite." The M160 blended with an SM57 (with the SM57 mixed down lower) also sounds pretty great for a"live amp" sound through a good FRFR. I thank our awesome resource and source of the Amp Wiki @yek also discovered that mix recipe before me. (All hail Yek!)

Okay, one more thing. I have really been using the clean Amp Boost (located in the Amp block) a LOT lately, set not at the default +12db, but tailored to the amp, set between +6db and +10db. It truly makes low and medium gain amps really get fat and juicy and come alive if you have the right IR and control the bass. That will take you to a happy place.

Enjoy!
 
Last edited:
I've been working with Fractal amp models and Cab IRs for over ten years now. My informed opinion is that there are three main issues for newbies to getting that elusive "amp in a room" sound.

First, they don't have a great FRFR playback system. You are not getting to get a 4x12 Marshall "amp in my room" sound on a preset coming out of a little 8" stereo monitor. A good FRFR Monitor - the good ones aren't the cheaper ones -- is the solution. I'm partial to a one or a pair of Atomic NEO CLRs myself, but I now have a Mission Gemini 2 2x12 that is growing me on too and really sounds like an amp!

Second, newbies often do not gain stage and level their presets and the hardware settings for audio output properly. So the sound may actually be great BUT it won't sound right if the level is too low for playback (or too high).

It's weird when you first discover it, but I have dialed in presets that were simply "uninspiring sounding" as I turned the amp LEVEL knob -- until all of a sudden -- bam - at the right db level, it all clicked and filled the room with a great balanced sound.

The Fletcher Munson effect (Google it) is a real thing. If you want an amp in the room sound, you have to play as LOUD as an amp in the room to get there. Not horribly loud, but at least at -92db (get a db meter App on your smart phone) so the Fletcher Munson effect does not play tricks on your ears and fool you.

This is why presets dialed in at bedroom levels and may sound great played low at home, but all of a sudden sound horrible at your band practice or gig -- too much lows, too many highs, not enough mids, etc. The guitar is a MIDs instrument, and the juicy meat of the electric guitar is between 200Hz to 500Hz and the other definition is the stuff between 500hz and around 2.5kHz.

Last, I am more convinced than ever after 10 years that finding and using the RIGHT CAB IR IS ESSENTIAL to getting a great sound for live playing. Unfortunately you have to really search -- 90%+ of IRs available will not work well - based on the mic used and position, there are not enough or too little bass/mids/treble for a good live sound (but can work for a recording or mix though in some cases).

Lots of people use the Royer 121 and SM57 mix and it can work if the IRs are captured right. But my favorite guitar mic/IR is the Beyer Dynamic M160. That's the key mic Eddie Kramer captured all those great Hendrix, Page, and Stones guitar tones on (blended with other mics and treated further at the mixing board to be sure).

I find that if you can locate a perfect M160 Cab IR capture, that alone is all you need for most amps. I usually start looking at those, then the Royers, then blend an SM57 in if it needs some further "bite." The M160 blended with an SM57 (with the SM57 mixed down lower) also sounds pretty great for a"live amp" sound through a good FRFR. I think our awesome resource and source of the Amp Wiki @yek also discovered that mix recipe before me. (All hail Yek!)

Okay, one more thing. I have really been using the clean Amp Boost a LOT lately, not at the default +12db, but tailored to the amp, between +6db and +10db. It truly makes low and medium gain amps really get fat and juicy and come alive if you have the right IR and control the bass. That will take you to a happy place.

Enjoy!

I'm with you there, in particular as far as IRs are concerned. It simply can't be overstated how crucial the right IR is for your tone. You need to find the ones that are matching your own playing, style and taste. Whenever I go though IRs a lot of them will sound honky or fizzy and harsh to me (that not to say great tone can't be achieved with them by other, but it's not my voice), and a lot of times when I come across one and think "ahh, there it is, the clouds part, the sun is coming through" it's a 121 or M160, sometimes it needs a little additional sizzle from a 57, sometimes some more body from a rear microphone IR... a lot of times in my case I find it's Ownhammer IRs.
Again, that's not to say the others can't be great, could be a coincidence... I don't know.

The hard part about finding the right IRs for you is that ear fatigue can set in very quickly. There's no way I can go through 2000+ IRs in one sitting. I'm having troubles staying relatively objective once I've gone through 10 or so.

Do it in chunks. Whenever you find one that puts a smile on your face assign a color to it.
 
I'm with you there, in particular as far as IRs are concerned. It simply can't be overstated how crucial the right IR is for your tone. You need to find the ones that are matching your own playing, style and taste. Whenever I go though IRs a lot of them will sound honky or fizzy and harsh to me (that not to say great tone can't be achieved with them by other, but it's not my voice), and a lot of times when I come across one and think "ahh, there it is, the clouds part, the sun is coming through" it's a 121 or M160, sometimes it needs a little additional sizzle from a 57, sometimes some more body from a rear microphone IR... a lot of times in my case I find it's Ownhammer IRs.
Again, that's not to say the others can't be great, could be a coincidence... I don't know.

The hard part about finding the right IRs for you is that ear fatigue can set in very quickly. There's no way I can go through 2000+ IRs in one sitting. I'm having troubles staying relatively objective once I've gone through 10 or so.

Do it in chunks. Whenever you find one that puts a smile on your face assign a color to it.



If anyone has ever mic'd a guitar cab for recording they'd know how much moving the mics around completely changes things. You dial in the amp how you like it, set the mic on it, monitor, adjust the mic, adjust the amp ad-infinitum. The next revolution in modeling will have to be something related to IRs making them easier to find ones that complement the tone you are going for. I assume good IR makers are plugging in guitars and dialing in tones before they capture the IR. That makes the IR condusive to the tone they dialed in but not to the one you might be seeking. The only information you have is the kind of cabs and mics, and MAYBE a general idea of where the mic is placed. But if you could sit there with the mic a looper and headphones to monitor you might adjust a inch this way or that way which might end up being more important than the kind of mic used or more important than the amp settings. There's an art to this but I think technology will find a way to drive this further in the future.
 
I've been working with Fractal amp models and Cab IRs for over ten years now. My informed opinion is that there are three main issues for newbies to getting that elusive "amp in a room" sound.

First, they don't have a great FRFR playback system. You are not getting to get a 4x12 Marshall "amp in my room" sound on a preset coming out of a little 8" stereo monitor. A good FRFR Monitor - the good ones aren't the cheaper ones -- is the solution. I'm partial to a one or a pair of Atomic NEO CLRs myself, but I now have a Mission Gemini 2 2x12 that is growing me on too and really sounds like an amp!

Second, newbies often do not gain stage and level their presets and the hardware settings for audio output properly. So the sound may actually be great BUT it won't sound right if the level is too low for playback (or too high).

It's weird when you first discover it, but I have dialed in presets that were simply "uninspiring sounding" as I turned the amp LEVEL knob -- until all of a sudden -- bam - at the right db level, it all clicked and filled the room with a great balanced sound.

The Fletcher Munson effect (Google it) is a real thing. If you want an amp in the room sound, you have to play as LOUD as an amp in the room to get there. Not horribly loud, but at least at -92db (get a db meter App on your smart phone) so the Fletcher Munson effect does not play tricks on your ears and fool you.

This is why presets dialed in at bedroom levels and may sound great played low at home, but all of a sudden sound horrible at your band practice or gig -- too much lows, too many highs, not enough mids, etc. The guitar is a MIDs instrument, and the juicy meat of the electric guitar is between 200Hz to 500Hz and the other definition is the stuff between 500hz and around 2.5kHz.

Last, I am more convinced than ever after 10 years that finding and using the RIGHT CAB IR IS ESSENTIAL to getting a great sound for live playing. Unfortunately you have to really search -- 90%+ of IRs available will not work well - based on the mic used and position, there are not enough or too little bass/mids/treble for a good live sound (but can work for a recording or mix though in some cases).

Lots of people use the Royer 121 and SM57 mix and it can work if the IRs are captured right. But my favorite guitar mic/IR is the Beyer Dynamic M160. That's the key mic Eddie Kramer captured all those great Hendrix, Page, and Stones guitar tones on (blended with other mics and treated further at the mixing board to be sure).

I find that if you can locate a perfect M160 Cab IR capture, that alone is all you need for most amps. I usually start looking at those, then the Royers, then blend an SM57 in if it needs some further "bite." The M160 blended with an SM57 (with the SM57 mixed down lower) also sounds pretty great for a"live amp" sound through a good FRFR. I think our awesome resource and source of the Amp Wiki @yek also discovered that mix recipe before me. (All hail Yek!)

Okay, one more thing. I have really been using the clean Amp Boost a LOT lately, not at the default +12db, but tailored to the amp, between +6db and +10db. It truly makes low and medium gain amps really get fat and juicy and come alive if you have the right IR and control the bass. That will take you to a happy place.

Enjoy!
@austinbuddy Thanks man! You are such an incredible resource to this community. As a user of your presets for live use, I can attest to the work that you put in to make tones stand out in a live mix. I have also learned a ton by studying the settings, effects and cabs in your presets. Just a big thanks and virtual hug for making this thing a blast to play. BTW, I'm loving my Gemini II for small room live gigs. It sounds killer. My only beef is the sucker weighs a lot :) but solved that by buying a $50 portable hand truck at Home Depot. Cheers all.
 
Which IRs are you using? To me that is the biggest thing that shapes your tone. Once I found myself a nice set of IRs, dialing in tones became really easy for me. You just have to know how the IRs, your guitars, and presets all react with one another. It does take some time, trust me. When I first got the Axe 3 from the Axe 2 my first set of tones I dialed in were horrible. So horrible that I had to pull down videos I had made with them. I didnt give up and constantly went back and tweaked them until I got them to sound good. My issue was that I wasnt putting enough bass in my tones and had too much high end. I hope that helps.
 
I'm with you there, in particular as far as IRs are concerned. It simply can't be overstated how crucial the right IR is for your tone. You need to find the ones that are matching your own playing, style and taste. Whenever I go though IRs a lot of them will sound honky or fizzy and harsh to me (that not to say great tone can't be achieved with them by other, but it's not my voice), and a lot of times when I come across one and think "ahh, there it is, the clouds part, the sun is coming through" it's a 121 or M160, sometimes it needs a little additional sizzle from a 57, sometimes some more body from a rear microphone IR... a lot of times in my case I find it's Ownhammer IRs.
Again, that's not to say the others can't be great, could be a coincidence... I don't know.

The hard part about finding the right IRs for you is that ear fatigue can set in very quickly. There's no way I can go through 2000+ IRs in one sitting. I'm having troubles staying relatively objective once I've gone through 10 or so.

Do it in chunks. Whenever you find one that puts a smile on your face assign a color to it.

PREACH!
 
I've been working with Fractal amp models and Cab IRs for over ten years now. My informed opinion is that there are three main issues for newbies to getting that elusive "amp in a room" sound.

First, they don't have a great FRFR playback system. You are not getting to get a 4x12 Marshall "amp in my room" sound on a preset coming out of a little 8" stereo monitor. A good FRFR Monitor - the good ones aren't the cheaper ones -- is the solution. I'm partial to a one or a pair of Atomic NEO CLRs myself, but I now have a Mission Gemini 2 2x12 that is growing me on too and really sounds like an amp!

Second, newbies often do not gain stage and level their presets and the hardware settings for audio output properly. So the sound may actually be great BUT it won't sound right if the level is too low for playback (or too high).

It's weird when you first discover it, but I have dialed in presets that were simply "uninspiring sounding" as I turned the amp LEVEL knob -- until all of a sudden -- bam - at the right db level, it all clicked and filled the room with a great balanced sound.

The Fletcher Munson effect (Google it) is a real thing. If you want an amp in the room sound, you have to play as LOUD as an amp in the room to get there. Not horribly loud, but at least at -92db (get a db meter App on your smart phone) so the Fletcher Munson effect does not play tricks on your ears and fool you.

This is why presets dialed in at bedroom levels and may sound great played low at home, but all of a sudden sound horrible at your band practice or gig -- too much lows, too many highs, not enough mids, etc. The guitar is a MIDs instrument, and the juicy meat of the electric guitar is between 200Hz to 500Hz and the other definition is the stuff between 500hz and around 2.5kHz.

Last, I am more convinced than ever after 10 years that finding and using the RIGHT CAB IR IS ESSENTIAL to getting a great sound for live playing. Unfortunately you have to really search -- 90%+ of IRs available will not work well - based on the mic used and position, there are not enough or too little bass/mids/treble for a good live sound (but can work for a recording or mix though in some cases).

Lots of people use the Royer 121 and SM57 mix and it can work if the IRs are captured right. But my favorite guitar mic/IR is the Beyer Dynamic M160. That's the key mic Eddie Kramer captured all those great Hendrix, Page, and Stones guitar tones on (blended with other mics and treated further at the mixing board to be sure).

I find that if you can locate a perfect M160 Cab IR capture, that alone is all you need for most amps. I usually start looking at those, then the Royers, then blend an SM57 in if it needs some further "bite." The M160 blended with an SM57 (with the SM57 mixed down lower) also sounds pretty great for a"live amp" sound through a good FRFR. I think our awesome resource and source of the Amp Wiki @yek also discovered that mix recipe before me. (All hail Yek!)

Okay, one more thing. I have really been using the clean Amp Boost a LOT lately, not at the default +12db, but tailored to the amp, between +6db and +10db. It truly makes low and medium gain amps really get fat and juicy and come alive if you have the right IR and control the bass. That will take you to a happy place.

Enjoy!
I played a club last night with my band. I got a chance to get out on the floor and listen for a couple songs as we had a guest guitarist come up. We run our Fractals straight into the PA. No amp and cab and no FRFR amps. The only sound on stage is what comes out of our wedge monitors. The guitars were sounding glorious. Nobody can say that modelers cannot compete with real tube amps. It sounded every bit as good as most of the bands I have heard using tube amps on stage.
 
Wonderful post from Austin Buddy!

What I find is every few months I have another breakthrough and all of a sudden, presets which I loved sound horrible and I re-program them.

Big recent discovery for me was the Pete Thorn presets, simply because if you listen to the cab - it’s really bright, more by a long way that I’d ever have chosen.

But in using these, and then ‘compensating’ with the amp settings - it sounds much more ‘real’. For example with the Jubilee/AFD amp - I’ve just started using the ML Labs Appetite IR. I always found this much too bright before, now I selected the IR first and dialled in the amp after (something I’ve never done before) - wow!

Then - again and again, watching out for compression throughout the signal chain, try and reduce as much as you can - only put it in where it should be. I find this is a common trait in digital - it’s just too, too easy to go overboard

Similarly, reducing the amount of delay/reverb - that makes it sound much more in the room.

Finally(!) - I’ve rediscovered the factory IRs, they really are good - I’ve bought nearly 2000 IRs (my III is basically full) - but actually there’s so much quality in the factory set, for the vanilla stuff why not?

Finally(2)! - experiment with the IR length parameter, changes the character of the IR quite drastically on occasion
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom