Help the Fight Against COVID-19

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I'm not a specialist, what are the risks associated to this treatment?

That's the thing, no-one knows without extensive testing of this particular medicine interacting with this particular virus.

this is definitely a possibility if it is causing sepsis and shutting down kidneys etc perhaps an antibiotic
administered quickly even IV would kill the bacteria or slow it

Not sure it would do anything. I've read that the big issue is lack of oxygen rather than bacteria.
Covid-19 when attacked by your anti-bodies causes swelling inside of your lungs which makes
getting enough oxygen into your blood difficult.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoxemia

Boiled down, this is how Covid-10 kills you.
 
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Where's that from? I've been tracking the John Hopkins numbers each night this week.

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Regarding the virus origins
I would encourage reading the study published by Nature this past week.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

1. Nature has removed over 1000 articles at the behest of the CCP so its integrity is suspect.

2. One of the things the Wuhan Institute of Virology was doing was "forced natural selection". They were repeatedly infecting civets and ferrets with coronaviruses to enhance the virus' virulence as those animals have very similar ACE2 receptors as humans.

So while the virus may not be genetically engineered it's possible that it was "cultivated".
 
It's number of confirmed deaths divided by number of confirmed cases.
There's too many pending cases to do the math any other way.

The 17% number is meaningless since there's too many pending cases.
No, it's the number of deaths divided by the number of deaths plus the number of recoveries. That's the very definition of case fatality rate.

Using the number of confirmed cases is meaningless since exponential growth means the majority of cases are new and won't have an outcome for at least a few weeks.
 
Someone at John Hopkins flunked remedial math. 27,333/(27,333+131006) = 17.2%.

Come on, you know how they calculated it. Their method is no less valid than the other way. Fatality rates are usually computed after the epidemic passes. There is no unambiguous best way to calculate it while the epidemic is still in progress.
 
It's a big controversy over here in France, and the "hither and yon" from the government is starting to nerve the population a very big lot. I'm not a specialist, what are the risks associated to this treatment ? Seems to be effective and efficient, why put lives at stake for what seem to be unscientific personal quarrels ?
@lauke-lux
http://bijsluiters.fagg-afmps.be/DownloadLeafletServlet?id=134591
Si le lien fonctionne, c’est la notice médecin du Plaquenil.

Personnellement, je ne prendrais pas le risque de l’associer à l’azithromycine à cause du risque d’interaction médicamenteuse pouvant mener à une arythmie cardiaque mortelle (torsade de pointe). Le problème est que l’étude de Raoult semble montrer une diminution du portage viral mais on ne sait pas quel est l’impact clinique ni l’impact sur le déroulement de la maladie.
La question reste la balance entre un bénéfice encore inconnu versus des effets secondaires potentiellement graves.

Le Plaquenil est donné aux malades covid dans les hôpotaux belges depuis le début et avant l’étude marseillaise.
 
No, it's the number of deaths divided by the number of deaths plus the number of recoveries. That's the very definition of case fatality rate.

Using the number of confirmed cases is meaningless since exponential growth means the majority of cases are new and won't have an outcome for at least a few weeks.



Case fatality rate, also called case fatality ratio, in epidemiology, the proportion of people who die from a specified disease among all individuals diagnosed with the disease over a certain period of time.

https://www.britannica.com/science/case-fatality-rate
 
Come on, you know how they calculated it. Their method is no less valid than the other way. Fatality rates are usually computed after the epidemic passes. There is no unambiguous best way to calculate it while the epidemic is still in progress.
It's far less valid. Half of the confirmed cases occurred in only the last few days. There won't be an outcome for several weeks. It takes several weeks for you to either recover or die.

Case Fatality Rate is a much more meaningful number.
 
2. One of the things the Wuhan Institute of Virology was doing was "forced natural selection". They were repeatedly infecting civets and ferrets with coronaviruses to enhance the virus' virulence as those animals have very similar ACE2 receptors as humans.

So while the virus may not be genetically engineered it's possible that it was "cultivated".

Where are you reading getting this info from? Not that I'm doubting you...I'd just like to read more about it myself.
 
True, but nobody gives a shit about the "fully recovered" who only survived with severe lung, heart or liver damage.
I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Your statement, alone, might be read as a complaint that a few people who had the virus came away with severe long-term debilitation as a result...and that nobody seems to care about those folk, inasmuch as it's barely being reported-about.

That's one interpretation I could give to what you said: That it's a complaint about media coverage leaving that bit out.

But in context (that is, in reply to plexi59), it seems like you're claiming that all, or majority, of the "fully recovered" actually aren't "fully recovered" at all, because of debilitating damage to lungs, heart, liver.

If that's what you're claiming, then I can't imagine how that's correct. Do you have any sources on that?

For that matter, does anyone have any stats on what percentage of...
  • those who had the virus, and
  • now are no longer infectious
...are suffering any longer-term effects?

I'm sure there are some, but I have no information about whether it's 2% or 20%.
 
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It's far less valid. Half of the confirmed cases occurred in only the last few days. There won't be an outcome for several weeks. It takes several weeks for you to either recover or die.

Case Fatality Rate is a much more meaningful number.

Only if you assume that recoveries are tracked as closely as deaths, which of course is not true. Please allow for the possibility that Johns Hopkins has considered this issue, and maybe there are multiple valid viewpoints.

I just learned that friend of mine is in a coma with Covid-19 and my appetite for analyzing the numbers has disappeared. Soon we will all be touched personally by this.
 
Someone at John Hopkins flunked remedial math. 27,333/(27,333+131006) = 17.2%.
He didn't "flunk remedial math"; he's describing the death rate as a percentage of confirmed cases.

27,333/595,800 = 4.59%

Now, as to whether that's the computation he should be using...that's a different matter!

Actually, I think neither one is the correct computation.

A More Meaningful Computation
A better (though still imperfect) computation to use would be to find out the mean time from infection to death (for cases in which death is the outcome), and then backtrack to find the number of confirmed cases that many days ago.

So if there were 27,333 deaths today, and they all got infected roughly 2 weeks ago, and if 2 weeks ago there were 485,702 confirmed cases, then the real percentage would be 27,333/485,702 = 5.6%.

After all, it's neither cases that were just confirmed today, nor the sum of cases resolved today (dead+recovered) that produces an eventual death in a still-active case. It's the infecting of that case that eventually leads to that death.

That's what the computation I'm proposing, above ^^^ would give us.

A Further Caveat
Of course all this is still not correct, because the "Confirmed Active Cases" on any given day is underestimating the real number of Active Cases by an unknown multiple between 5 and 20. (I use "5 and 20" because those are the lowest and highest estimates I've seen for the number of infections we're missing due to lack of testing. Two weeks ago it was probably closer to 20; hopefully with increased testing it'll be coming downwards.)

So in reality, if 2 weeks ago we tested people and got 485,702 confirmed infections, the actual number of infections was somewhere between 2.4 million and 9.7 million. And that would put the eventual deaths from those infections as somewhere between 1.1% and 0.2%.

P.S. While I was typing this, I see that somebody else came in pointed out how the Johns Hopkins number was calculated. Sorry to be redundant in pointing that out.
 
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