Putting all the update features together meaningfully

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DreDawgie

Member
It seems like I find myself playing with each feature introduced in an update and getting all excited about it, and then slowly forgetting about past added features.
Like with 10.x it was all about the speaker impedance knob and then by 11.x it was about the speaker impedance curves and the cabinet resonance knob. Was the speaker impedance knob added on the path toward creating the impedance curves and now not as relevant? What about some of the other "advanced parameters" from past updates? How do they all combine? Are there any there just as evolutionary left-overs?
 
I've been on the Fractal train for several years starting with an Axe-FX II XL+ with firmware 18 or so. It sounded good then and it just continues to get better. Those of us that have been onboard for a while probably have their own watermarks, but Quantum and Ares and whatever firmware enhanced the chugga, chugga and bong (Ares v5?) are all personal highlights for me, but there have been so many that it's hard to keep track. An "embarrassment of riches" is one way to put it.
 
PumpkinKing86 said:
I've been on the Fractal train for several years starting with an Axe-FX II XL+ with firmware 18 or so. It sounded good then and it just continues to get better. Those of us that have been onboard for a while probably have their own watermarks, but Quantum and Ares and whatever firmware enhanced the chugga, chugga and bong (Ares v5?) are all personal highlights for me, but there have been so many that it's hard to keep track. An "embarrassment of riches" is one way to put it.
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But from a production standpoint... can you look at all the amp parameters when something doesn't sound right in a mix and say, beyond the main knobs, "this is what it needs"? Obviously it gets better with each update, but it could be argued that for all intents and purposes if most people can't look at the whole param list and know what's what and when to use this or that, then Cliff could just as well get rid of most of the knobs and just keep making each update "sound better" and be like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. That might suit @chris it seems. I'd rather get a full sense of how each knob is used, like spices in a spice rack, to make the final mix and how they all combine.
 
DreDawgie said:
But from a production standpoint... can you look at all the amp parameters when something doesn't sound right in a mix and say, beyond the main knobs, "this is what it needs"? Obviously it gets better with each update, but it could be argued that for all intents and purposes if most people can't look at the whole param list and know what's what and when to use this or that, then Cliff could just as well get rid of most of the knobs and just keep making each update "sound better" and be like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. That might suit @chris it seems. I'd rather get a full sense of how each knob is used, like spices in a spice rack, to make the final mix and how they all combine.
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Of course, I look at the advanced parameters as the equivalent of taking my amp to a tech and having it modded. BUT, 99.9% of the time if I can't get it where I need it with the basic controls, or a different ir, then I'll try a different amp.
 
DreDawgie said:
But from a production standpoint... can you look at all the amp parameters when something doesn't sound right in a mix and say, beyond the main knobs, "this is what it needs"? Obviously it gets better with each update, but it could be argued that for all intents and purposes if most people can't look at the whole param list and know what's what and when to use this or that, then Cliff could just as well get rid of most of the knobs and just keep making each update "sound better" and be like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. That might suit @chris it seems. I'd rather get a full sense of how each knob is used, like spices in a spice rack, to make the final mix and how they all combine.
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If something is wrong in the mix, I usually have the wrong amp or IR. I’d rather change that than try myriad advanced parameters.

The wiki details specifics, so I’d start there. But I don’t want all that info in my brain just to play music. I’m not an amp engineer. Knowledge is indeed power though, so if you know what to do that’s great.
 
DreDawgie said:
But from a production standpoint... can you look at all the amp parameters when something doesn't sound right in a mix and say, beyond the main knobs, "this is what it needs"? Obviously it gets better with each update, but it could be argued that for all intents and purposes if most people can't look at the whole param list and know what's what and when to use this or that, then Cliff could just as well get rid of most of the knobs and just keep making each update "sound better" and be like the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain. That might suit @chris it seems. I'd rather get a full sense of how each knob is used, like spices in a spice rack, to make the final mix and how they all combine.
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I am not an engineering genius or anything like that, but it has been an education owning Fractal products. I've learned how some of the advanced parameters behave and I have gotten a certain workflow going when I am searching for tones in general which lead me to tweak specific parameters. Sometimes it's super simple, but in the case of the Mesa Boogie Mark series amps for example, it takes a bit of knowledge to know how to tweak it to your desires. The same is true in the Fractal realm as you will at least need to make it over to the GEQ tab to take advantage of some of the features that are built-in to those amps already. So when new firmware comes out, you can learn to use some of the new advanced parameters if you want, but you don't have to. It's not necessary to read into each and every detail, but you can learn new methods of tone shaping if you pay attention. The search for tone is endless. Like I said, it's been an education!
 
DreDawgie said:
it could be argued that for all intents and purposes if most people can't look at the whole param list and know what's what and when to use this or that, then Cliff could just as well get rid of most of the knobs and just keep making each update "sound better"
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Most people don't familiarize themselves with the entire amps list either, but that's no reason to get rid of most of them.
 
A lot of the amp parameters don't necessarily affect the sound of the amp directly, but more affect the feel or how it responds to your playing. You don't need to tweak everything right off the bat, but if after while of playing it you find something is bothering you or doesn't work quite right, it's nice to be able to adjust it. Like if you feel the amp response is not "spongy" enough you might tweak the supply sag a bit, etc. Most of the basic tone stuff can be achieved with the authentic controls, output eq, and cab block. The rest is more for fine tuning to the player's preference.
 
DreDawgie said:
How do they all combine?
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They all interact with each other, they're all tied in...once the speaker is plugged in and the power amp is pushing it's all one big electronic jenga tower, the speaker impedance and Xformer size effects power tube breakup affects PA distortion characteristics and frequency response, then there's how much power you're sending it with variac, plus how fast it responds with sag, all of those controls have effect on feel/response, breakup characteristics since the preamp circuit is running off the same power supply, and then gets additional filtering and distortion by the PA...and those are the main ones before you even get into adjusting cathode follower behavior, preamp tube bias, power tube bias. I constantly keep resetting the channel, adjust a knob, adjust another knob, reset the channel, adjust another knob to figure out what does what. Just last night I discovered that cathode response time is the "buzz" character in the recto that has always felt stiff to me on recto 2 (a modeled 2010s multi-watt), compared to early 3 channel dual recs. Moving it from 5ms to 1ms gave me what I'm looking for with it to breakup softer/easier (faster), thing is though that cathode follower is tied into the whole thing, so like 6 other knobs can have a similar effect while also adjusting other stuff, preamp bias, cathode compression, Xformer, variac, speaker impedance, they all effect cathode follower behavior, since they all leech power, or change response time...it's all tied in, a tweaker's wet dream...
 
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I have looked at and compared various parameter settings from presets by Austin Buddy, Fractal, Mike, Fremen, Leon to help me get a better understanding of the methods of their madness and also used the FracTool for a quick reference of all the presets settings for comparison which takes about 5 seconds to export. In addition to that, the amount of info from the most amazing forum and members is unbelievable. Truly blessed to be a Fractaler! Best product, development, engineering, support, product enhancement as well as members, musicians, engineers in da whole wide world.
 
Changing amps and cabs on and on is fun at hone. But that's not something that I do with my gigging presets. I want the same sound for the same songs. What would happen if the keyboard player and me come up with different sounds every time, oh my? The advanced parameters let me make small adjustments and that's what it needs most of the time.
 
666was999 said:
Changing amps and cabs on and on is fun at hone. But that's not something that I do with my gigging presets. I want the same sound for the same songs. What would happen if the keyboard player and me come up with different sounds every time, oh my? The advanced parameters let me make small adjustments and that's what it needs most of the time.
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The concept described above is if you’re completely off base with the amp/cab choice, not making small adjustments at the gig. Hopefully at the gig you don’t have the completely wrong amp.
 
Like others have stated I like to play with the parameters to see what they do. I think of them all as tools in my toolbox for use. So for some jobs you need a certain tool & you get to know which ones work for certain jobs. Maybe some things work for a clean sound & others for a crunch sound etc.

Personally I find a lot of the sounds have a harshness to them which I don't like (some people do) so I invariably turn the input trim to 50% & normally hardness down too. This may be because of my guitars pickups. The point is that we will all have certain settings that work for us & we develop a routine when tuning an amp. Look at the way that Leon does his videos. He most definitely has a "toolkit" of settings that he knows work for him to allow him to set his amps the way that he likes.

But the original poster is asking, I think, if certain improvements have overtaken others with each firmware. Ie are there now some functions which are superceded by more recent ones? I think that that is a very good question & would love to hear from cliff on it.
 
DreDawgie said:
Was the speaker impedance knob added on the path toward creating the impedance curves and now not as relevant?
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Cabinet response is an additional layer on top of speaker impedance. Speaker impedance knob is for mismatching amp/cab impedance, like plugging an 8 ohm recto cab into the 16 ohm out of a Marshall, or plugging a 16 ohm 1960 cab into the 8 ohm out of a Mesa, or variations like that. Cab response is an additional layer on top of speaker impedance, in that based on the cabinet dimensions and construction, there are acoustic resonance nodes that pop up when the speakers start humming, and wherever those nodes are they decrease the speaker impedance at that node... the speaker gets an extra push from the acoustic resonance at that node like a suffer hopping a wave...the speaker feels that extra push from that cabinet resonance curve, and that acoustic interaction shows up at the output Xformer in that where the speaker doesn't need to suck as much juice at those nodes, it affects the output frequency response and feel of the power amp dynamically.

I can't think of any parameter that is still in there that's not a defined circuit control...there used to be stuff like pick attack, or bright, just random knobs to turn and make sound gooder...the only artificial compensation parameter I can think of still in there is cab proximity.
 
To me, it is obvious that many parameters work different now and some that that made big changes before only have subtle influence now. Harder to get it your way when you are on the wrong amp model. Easier when you hit the right model.
 
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