Update on the FC12? I got the FC6 but this FC12 seems to be a biaatch to get.

I’m wondering if they redirected their limited supply of capacitors to the new FM3 as opposed to using them to fulfill the FC waitlist first. If they do that (and I have no idea if they are) how would their “hands be tied”?
I was referring to the limited supply of capacitors when I said their hands are tied. I wouldn't worry about what product gets the parts, Fractal Audio has always been fair in their business practice.
 
I’m wondering if they redirected their limited supply of capacitors to the new FM3 as opposed to using them to fulfill the FC waitlist first. If they do that (and I have no idea if they are) how would their “hands be tied”?
Reread Cliff's post. The supplier redirected the capacitors to "someone else." As in "not Fractal."
 
From where I am sitting, I have to wonder if manufacturing in China really is cheaper.

We hear tales of suppliers redirecting parts, middle men holding shipments hostage for “facilitation fees”, international shipping costs, customs bureaucracy, ridiculous tariffs, intellectual property theft, and god only knows what else. I have a hard time understanding exactly how Chinese manufacturing is a better deal for American businesses. Seems to me there is a lot of risk, expense, and uncertainty when you do business with China.

All of that creates a scenario whereby companies struggle to satisfy demand. When coupled with other market forces (e.g. component shortages), restocking becomes a debilitating constraint on the ability of the business to operate. What good is it to produce units $400 cheaper if you have no product to sell?
 
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Reread Cliff's post. The supplier redirected the capacitors to "someone else." As in "not Fractal."

You’re missing my point. I’m just asking if whenever they do get the parts are they prioritizing the FCs.
 
We already are subjected to the tariffs. 25%. I’ve been personally absorbing it. Comes out of my pocket.
Cliff, don't think we would not understand if you passed it along. It is certainly not a BS fee and is very transparent. Thank you, but I think we all would pony up should you charge until the tax think is possibly rectified.
 
I would gladly pay the 25%. Maybe make it an option on the order page for those of us who don't like the hot-headed decisions of others to affect small-business owners like yourself.
 
I would gladly pay more if it meant not having to wait. IMHO, I'd buy the components needed to ramp production and break the wait-list line, and charge what gets the job done. If people want to wait for the regular price they can wait.
 
Careful what you wish for. Fractal could undoubtably, and justifiably, increase the price on these units across the board. This would hurt everyone in the long run. More people would seek out other abundant 3rd party MIDI controllers, and it would just reinforce the overall long-term scarcity, eventually making them less adopted and hurting sales on all of their products.

Fractal seems to be executing a strategy to get as many of their products to market as soon as they can, as opposed to a reactive policy of satisfying the urgent needs...and the impatient.
 
Careful what you wish for. Fractal could undoubtably, and justifiably, increase the price on these units across the board. This would hurt everyone in the long run. More people would seek out other abundant 3rd party MIDI controllers, and it would just reinforce the overall long-term scarcity, eventually making them less adopted and hurting sales on all of their products.

Fractal seems to be executing a strategy to get as many of their products to market as soon as they can, as opposed to a reactive policy of satisfying the urgent needs...and the impatient.

What I am wishing for is for Fractal to supply more FCs. I'm saying that I'm willing to pay a higher price for increased supply. Apparently the demand is high and unmet given the market price for resales which is almost DOUBLE Fractal's advertised pricing. Only Fractal knows why they're choosing to provide this amount of supply at this price point; however, I'd wager to say that penetration over the long run would be BETTER if Fractal supplied more FCs up front, even at a higher price point, than the current situation. As it stands, people are having to buy third party controllers NOW which hurts the penetration from the get go. Also, pricing can vary over time; while component costs are higher Fractal could raise pricing to meet demand and then lower it over time as component costs come down and/or demand wanes.
 
I'm saying that I'm willing to pay a higher price for increased supply. Apparently the demand is high and unmet given the market price for resales which is almost DOUBLE Fractal's advertised pricing.

Increasing price isn't going to increase supply if an underlying shortage of capacitors is the root cause of the supply issues. It would just be a tactical solution to meet impatient customers. Fluctuating pricing strategies are a can of worms for any business, doesn't seem like FAS would want to go there.
 
Increasing price isn't going to increase supply if an underlying shortage of capacitors is the root cause of the supply issues. It would just be a tactical solution to meet impatient customers. Fluctuating pricing strategies are a can of worms for any business, doesn't seem like FAS would want to go there.

Sure, if capacitors aren't available at any price it wouldn't increase supply, but that isn't the case. And Fractal already has a fluctuating pricing strategy - see how the Axe III is currently on sale due to the lower demand (which is likely at least partly due to the unavailability of FCs)? It isn't hard, unreasonable or unheard of for companies to adjust pricing over time based on supply and demand...

Again, I wish Fractal would pay the price needed to source the necessary components, pass the cost on to buyers, ramp production and break the wait list.
 
Again, I wish Fractal would pay the price needed to source the necessary components, pass the cost on to buyers, ramp production and break the wait list.
When a shortage is global, it isn't enough to just pay a higher price. The ones who can do that at volume are the ones who win that war.

If you're Apple, and you need capacitors to build millions of iPhones, which everyone has heard of, you're going to win out over the guy who sells guitar processors.
 
From where I am sitting, I have to wonder if manufacturing in China really is cheaper.

We hear tales of suppliers redirecting parts, middle men holding shipments hostage for “facilitation fees”, international shipping costs, customs bureaucracy, ridiculous tariffs, intellectual property theft, and god only knows what else. I have a hard time understanding exactly how Chinese manufacturing is a better deal for American businesses. Seems to me there is a lot of risk, expense, and uncertainty when you do business with China.

All of that creates a scenario whereby companies struggle to satisfy demand. When coupled with other market forces (e.g. component shortages), restocking becomes a debilitating constraint on the ability of the business to operate. What good is it to produce units $400 cheaper if you have no product to sell?

There are indeed challenges with moving production to China (or elsewhere to far east). And it will only be cheaper if you have a long term strategy for your production in China and willing to work with your factory/factories and supply chain to make it work.
There are no quick payoffs to moving production.
In this particular case as I understand its a worldwide shortage of these components so production anywhere wouldn't have made much of a difference.
As for challenges with custom bureaucracy, its not my experience at least when you EXPORT from China. I have managed a number of projects IMPORTING to China, and that's another story. The rules and regulations has improved and being more transparent and consistent, but there has been times when we had to choose different ports to import to depending on what type of products it was. Other challenges are similar to any other part of the world apart from the risk of getting your products/technology copied. Since nothing of the coding/software is "made in China" I don't see it being any risk for FAS in this case.

Still China is vastly more cheap than the West, but salaries, raw material along with all other prices going up. All kinds of "dirty" work, like plating, powder coating and other painting/finishing process are now heavily inspected and need to pass much higher requirements in terms of environmental standards.
But its nowhere near as cheap as it was years ago. Guitar manufacturers has moved from Japan to Korea to China to Indonesia. Clothing and shoes manufacturing also out of China due to being too costly, to Vietnam, Cambodia, Bangladesh etc.

I am working with some clients and we are looking into moving some production to Taiwan. Some products are same price as China now, some still slightly more expensive, but you are dealing with a more mature economy, more transparency and its actually easier for some of my clients which are not huge in volume, Taiwan suppliers typically is more flexible on smaller orders etc.
The decision to move or not pretty much depends on what product it is, if you are heavily invested in tooling and other machine setups etc and that might be the case for FAS as well, even if now with 25% tariffs production cost would have been somewhat similar to to in USA, tooling and everything is in China so I guess a move back to USA (or elsewhere) could be very challenging and further risks production dropout, delays etc etc.
 
Sure, if capacitors aren't available at any price it wouldn't increase supply, but that isn't the case. And Fractal already has a fluctuating pricing strategy - see how the Axe III is currently on sale due to the lower demand (which is likely at least partly due to the unavailability of FCs)? It isn't hard, unreasonable or unheard of for companies to adjust pricing over time based on supply and demand...

Fractal might be at a disadvantage in obtaining these capacitors, like any other smaller company. I worked for a large company that had supply issues with capacitors and other electronic components all of the time, it wasn't just about the price it was about scale. Contracts. The smaller buyers never stood a chance. We would just crack our suppliers over the heads until they re-upped us because we had the leverage!

No. I don't think the Axe 3 is on sale, that seems to be the normal direct price. Adjustable pricing is easy for companies with big marketing/operations/finance departments and pricing analytic systems, but it is a pain in the butt for smaller, entrepreneurial/ start-up mentality companies like Fractal.
 
I don't really care. It's truly amazing that they operate like this. This FC12 delay is ridiculous. I waited on list only to be offered the FC6. Waited longer and still no FC12. Who the hell makes these things? One dude in Taiwan? The endless waiting game is just old. I'm not mentioning for any other reason than the process is tired. I don't expect my post or any others to do anything from Fractal's end. They operate how they want and always have. As a consumer that has spent over $10k with them over the last decade, I can vent. I praise them more than I have ever stated negatives.

I share your frustrations on the delayed waiting time. I eventually caved-in and acquired the RJM MMGT 16 instead..couldn't be any happier! Way more costlier but the MMGT is another brilliant product like FAS stuff and i have no regrets. I will also pass for the FC12 as the MMGT does everything (and more) than i could ever ask for.
 
I share your frustrations on the delayed waiting time. I eventually caved-in and acquired the RJM MMGT 16 instead..couldn't be any happier! Way more costlier but the MMGT is another brilliant product like FAS stuff and i have no regrets. I will also pass for the FC12 as the MMGT does everything (and more) than i could ever ask for.

I think RJM controllers are also back-ordered.
 
One way or another, taking a 25% per unit hit is difficult for a small company to handle. Those of us who want to see Fractal continue to make great products should be upset at the circumstances that created the 25% per unit increase, and should be willing to help however they can.
 
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