Help Cutting Through the Mix in Band Rehearsal

Matt007

Inspired
I’m playing an AX8 through a CLR at band practice. Using @austinbuddy Dirty Shirley medium preset which is amazing. Need a little help cutting through the mix. Do you recommend more volume or more mids?
 
Do a 3to3.5db filter boost at the end of your signal chain for leads etc. That will push you out in the mix.

If you use scenes, you can go to Output mixer at end of signal chain and raise individual scenes levels for louder (or reduce them for softer) song parts.
 
I also play through a CLR. One thing to note about them is they have very narrow horizontal coverage compared a traditional guitar cab. If it isn't aimed at you, you will have trouble hearing it.
 
Humm, for me it's been the exact opposite! Guitar speakers are known for having a beaming effect. The sound of an off axis guitar cab always sounded muffled to me. On the other hand I have never had a bad listening position from a CLR (unless of course I was standing behind it) weather using it for backline or monitor position.

To the OP EQ is paramount for cutting through at gig levels some mids will make all the difference! you didn't mention how your setup is being placed, backline, monitor or side wash?
 
I’m playing an AX8 through a CLR at band practice. Using @austinbuddy Dirty Shirley medium preset which is amazing. Need a little help cutting through the mix. Do you recommend more volume or more mids?

There is actually a parallel thread going on right now discussing how to boost for solos that you may find interesting:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/how-do-you-set-your-boost-option.149885/

I have to respectfully disagree with @austinbuddy on the scene-dependent output level approach - especially if you have time-based effects running (reverb, delay). There is a side-effect when you switch back to a non-boosted scene in that your delay repeats / reverb tail will abruptly decrease in volume. Similarly when you switch to the boost, your delay / reverb will jump in volume.
 
I’m playing an AX8 through a CLR at band practice. Using @austinbuddy Dirty Shirley medium preset which is amazing. Need a little help cutting through the mix. Do you recommend more volume or more mids?

The bottom line is that you'll need to experiment with advice here and everywhere.

My advice is to forget about dialing in your tone while you're by yourself. Do it in a band setting so you can fit into the mix. Pay attention to mids for cutting through. Leave most of the low end for the bass player but dial up just enough to smooth out your tone. It will do little to help your tone cut through in the mix (and is often the first thing we dial up while setting tone by ourselves). Adjusting high end is to taste, but in my experience, I need much fewer highs than I usually think I do.

It doesn't matter if your stand alone tone kind of sucks as long as it sounds right in the mix. That was a difficult reality for me to wrap my head around, but it's true. This is in no way a rule though. Adjusting for expectations, good tone is good tone.

Wish I could be more help re: the CLR, but I cannot. Seems hard to believe that it would have an even more focused output than a traditional guitar speaker, but I've never played one so I have no comment. Honestly, that would be a convincing argument to talk me out of a CLR.
 
To the OP EQ is paramount for cutting through at gig levels some mids will make all the difference! you didn't mention how your setup is being placed, backline, monitor or side wash?

I was using the CLR as a back line. The other guitarists were using guitar amps. My tone was great, just had trouble hearing what I was playing at times.
 
I also play through a CLR. One thing to note about them is they have very narrow horizontal coverage compared a traditional guitar cab. If it isn't aimed at you, you will have trouble hearing it.


CLR has the widest flat dispersion pattern of essentially any monitor on the market.

Guitar cabs are very directional, “beam-y”, et al, with a very different tone on and off-axis. Exactly why they sell so many tilt back amp stands, so the cab points towards your ears, not your knees
 
I was using the CLR as a back line. The other guitarists were using guitar amps. My tone was great, just had trouble hearing what I was playing at times.

Others may differ, but I never cared for the CLR or any FRFR monitor I’ve used in a back line unless it was elevated off the floor. Most of the time I have my CLR to my left, pointing into the stage, and angled where I am smack in the center of its 90x90 field. The other guitarist points his amp inwards as well to keep from pasting the people to their chairs near the stage. There’s enough bleed to fill in at stage front, we can hear ourselves and each other, the sound man is happy not contending with excess stage volume out front. The CLR coverage is great like that, covering my side of the stage pretty well.

Nothing works for everyone, but moving the speaker to where you can hear it makes sense. Some use theirs in front, like a band monitor. Works good there too.
 
It really depends on who else you're playing with... cutting through another guitarist is a different prospect than a keyboardist. If you're playing with another guitarist, you should modify both your tones so they are prominent in different frequency ranges. Add a PEQ block with a mid boost somewhere in the 300-1,000 Hz range that you like (and a different boost range for each guitarist). If your other guitarist doesn't use a Fractal, he could pick up a Boss 7-band EQ pedal to help sculpt his tone.

I'd also try experimenting with the high and low pass filters on the cab block. Try cutting anything below 150-250 Hz on the low end and above 6.5k-8k KHz+ on the high side... this really helps me stand out from our synth player, but you'll need to adjust to suit the mix of the rest of your band.

When I played with a metal band in the 80s one trick that we used with two guitarists was each of us had a Boss GE-7 that we used to create a crude comb filter effect by setting the sliders opposite of each other. One guitarist set the pedal fully "up-down-up-etc" and the other was "down-up-down-etc" - that way we each emphasized different frequency ranges, and when we played together it sounded very well defined.
 
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I was using the CLR as a back line. The other guitarists were using guitar amps. My tone was great, just had trouble hearing what I was playing at times.

I would echo Rick's post! Either try elevating the CLR off the floor 24" or so, or place it monitor position behind you if you don't need to project your sound to FOH, it should make a noticeable difference!

Good luck sir!
 
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Go read cliffs note (Tech notes) on the power of pre-eq. Critical reading.

Understanding Fletcher/Munson, and listening to solo guitar stems on YouTube of your favorite guitar recordings will illustrate how narrow the frequency of guitar tracks really are; very instructional.

Good luck brew...
 
That’s interesting. So the same principles of how the guitar sits in the mix for recorded material also apply to live settings?
 
I have a hard time with this as does MANY others. I can record a tone that sounds great in that mix. I can crank that recorded mixed track and the mix still holds up. But trying to use the same tone cranked loud doesn’t translate. I do have to boost the mids from about 250 thru 3000 in a frown shape. Of course it thins out the tone on its own, but it cuts. But that boost doesn’t sound good recorded.
 
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