Help in the decision process

K

Kingfishcam

Inspired
I am still looking over the Fractal options to see what best suits my needs and looking for opinions from seasoned vets of the product.

The question I have is this: can I run overdriven amp modeling from the FX3 to the front end of my tube amp on the clean channel, and time based FX through my loop, all ending up in my 4x12 cab without sacrificing tone? Keep in mind I would like to bypass amp and cab modeling and still use the two drive channels on my amp for certain songs.

I have a killer hand built amp, and do not want to stop using it, but having some different amp models is really appealing.

My primary focus that brought me to the Fractal was the FX8, but reading up on AX8, and now the FX3 really has my attention.

Thoughts are appreciated!
 
The axe 3 strongpoint is effect and amps and cabs if your not using the last two whats the point with a 3 then ?
you dont get the full value of running an amp into a amp if you need the fx buy the fx8
 
I have a killer hand built Plexi I won’t part with. But it gets used infrequently compared to Axe III. If all the Axe did was reverb,delay in an otherwise all tube system it’d feel like a waste to me. The variety of amp sounds is a drug.
 
See my response on the following thread:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/using-axe-fx-iii-with-a-real-amp.149186/

Bottom line, on the Axe III preset/scenes can be used to create very flexible routing scenarios. The routing capabilities of the III was a big part of what drew me to it.

If running into the front of the amp, you don’t need the amp modeling. The preamp in your amp does what the amp model does. It would likely sound like ass without some serious tweaking,

Same applies to cab simulation. If you have a real cab, cab simulation is not really needed.

That said there are some people here who use amp modeling and cab simulation with full guitar rigs and have made it work. Seems to require a lot of work to get there. Using the Axe III in 4cm mode for effects sounds really sweet on my JVM.

Using amp modeling with the power amp section of a tube amp and guitar cab sounds sweet too. See the link above for more details.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn’t run the “overdriven amp model” to the front of your amp. Run it also to just the power section/loop.

Anything else can be run to the front though like wah, drive, compressor, etc.

It’s called the 4 cable method.
 
when I first got my Axe, I ran it in 4CM with my Mark IV; for overdriven tones from my Mark IV I would bypass the amp block, but I would use it for clean/ -ish tones.

But pretty soon I wanted to make use of the cab sim, so for a while I ran a WDW setup.

Now the Mark IV sits in the living room and hasn't been used in months: the Axe sounds an feels fantastic and it's so incredibly easy to get tones of a quality that previously I could only dream of. It's like a recording studio in a box.
 
Some good stuff here. Makes sense to run the amp/cab modeling thru the FX loop. I just wanted to hear from some folks that actually use the AX8 or FX3 thru a full guitar amp/cab.
 
belfast said:
The axe 3 strongpoint is effect and amps and cabs if your not using the last two whats the point with a 3 then ?
you dont get the full value of running an amp into a amp if you need the fx buy the fx8
Click to expand...

Just to have options because I play in a cover band.
 
Capt Nasty said:
See my response on the following thread:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/using-axe-fx-iii-with-a-real-amp.149186/

Bottom line, on the Axe III preset/scenes can be used to create very flexible routing scenarios. The routing capabilities of the III was a big part of what drew me to it.

If running into the front of the amp, you don’t need the amp modeling. The preamp in your amp does what the amp model does. It would likely sound like ass without some serious tweaking,

Same applies to cab simulation. If you have a real cab, cab simulation is not really needed.

That said there are some people here who use amp modeling and cab simulation with full guitar rigs and have made it work. Seems to require a lot of work to get there. Using the Axe III in 4cm mode for effects sounds really sweet on my JVM.

Using amp modeling with the power amp section of a tube amp and guitar cab sounds sweet too. See the link above for more details.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the type of information I am looking for. Actual tried and used methods. Thank you!
 
Daveis said:
I have a killer hand built Plexi I won’t part with. But it gets used infrequently compared to Axe III. If all the Axe did was reverb,delay in an otherwise all tube system it’d feel like a waste to me. The variety of amp sounds is a drug.
Click to expand...

This is my dilemma. Trying to avoid buyers remorse from both sides. Buying a FX8 and wishing I had saved and have the ability for expansion, or buy the FX3 and under utilizing it with my tube amp.

Thanks!
 
Kingfishcam said:
This is my dilemma. Trying to avoid buyers remorse from both sides. Buying a FX8 and wishing I had saved and have the ability for expansion, or buy the FX3 and under utilizing it with my tube amp.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
I think the whole underutilizing concept is overthinking it. Yes, there are things in the box you might not use. But you have a lot of effects and full signal chain configurability at a preset by preset level.

Using just your guitar rig with the Axe, you have the following setups available to you:
  1. Guitar - Axe III Effects - Front of Amp - FX Send - Axe III Effects - FX Return - Guitar Cab
  2. Guitar - Axe III Amp Model & Effects - FX Return - Guitar Cab
You could set up both of these scenarios in a single preset and change between them with scenes. There is a lot of flexibility in those two setups if you think it through and get creative with it.

I think when people first come to the Axe from a pure tube amp world they have a very static view of their rigs. Your signal chain is your signal chain. If you want to change that signal chain on the fly you add a loop controller. The Axe is a different beast. Your signal chain can be completely different from preset to preset, scene to scene.
 
Last edited:
Capt Nasty said:
I think the whole underutilizing concept is overthinking it. Yes, there are things in the box you might not use. But you have a lot of effects and full signal chain configurability at a preset by preset level.

Using just your guitar rig with the Axe, you have the following setups available to you:
  1. Guitar - Axe III Effects - Front of Amp - FX Send - Axe III Effects - FX Return - Guitar Cab
  2. Guitar - Axe III Amp Model & Effects - FX Return - Guitar Cab
You could set up both of these scenarios in a single preset and change between them with scenes. There is a lot of flexibility in those two setups if you think it through and get creative with it.

I think when people first come to the Axe from a pure tube amp world they have a very static view of their rigs. Your signal chain is your signal chain. If you want to change that signal chain on the fly you add a loop controller. The Axe is a different beast. You signal chain can be completely different from preset to preset, scene to scene.
Click to expand...

Capt, your explanations are answering the questions I have! Thank you for that! But it appears I am now going from the $900 realm to the $3000 realm. LOL.
 
I’ve been an amp and pedals guy since 1988. It’s a gut feeling. The digital world never really convinced me up until the Axe-Fx III was announced.
I skeptically decided to give it a try, telling myself “if I don’t like it, it’ll be easy to sell without loosing too much money”.

As soon as I got it home and started using it, I knew it would have been a keeper. I quickly sold most of my pedals (mainly to partially pay the €3000 investment) and never turn my tube amp on again, even though I didn’t sell the head nor the cab (JCM800 2203 + 1936 2x12)

I initially thought about using the Axe-Fx III with the 4cm, but quickly opted for a FRFR powered cab to use at reharsals/gigs as my personal monitor and nearfield monitors to play at home. Never regretted my choice, the flexibility offered by this thing is way too good to not taking advantage of it. So many great sounding amps to choose from and so many cabs, it’s impossible to keep them locked inside the DSP without any purpose whatsoever.

And last but not least, the weight and volume of all the gear I usually shuffle around have shrinked considerably.
 
Also the AF3 will serve you well in a home recording or studio situation - silent monitoring via phones or using studio monitors

The AX8 will too but with less features and no dedicated phones jack or ability to use as USB sound interface device.

Perhaps a used AF2 could be considered too if the funds seem excessive in going for a new III? Of course it's always desirable to have the latest but it's probable that you'd lose less on re-selling a previously used II over a III after a year's use.
 
I originally got the AF2 just for the effects back in 2011, but after i started playing with it that changed and I just used the Axe. I don't even have any dedicated guitar amps or effects now. Selling all that stuff not only paid for the axe and then some, but gave me a bunch more space.
 
Kingfishcam said:
Capt, your explanations are answering the questions I have! Thank you for that! But it appears I am now going from the $900 realm to the $3000 realm. LOL.
Click to expand...
Cool. Glad it is helpful to you.

I can tell you that I have personally said on multiple occasions that the Axe III was the single best purchase I have ever made for my guitar rig. I was coming from a Marshall JVM and fretted about underutilization.

I got it plugged it in and in no time had what my grown sons called the “most professional sounding guitar tone they had ever played on”. From there, I decided to integrate an FRFR speaker into my rig.

At that point, I realized that I had every possible configuration available to me. That by viewing the connections as “widgets” with a specific function (e.g. Axe Ouput 3 = “to JVM Preamp”, Output 4 = “to JVM Power amp”, Input 1 = “Guitar”, Input 4 = “From JVM Pre Amp”, Output 1 = “To FRFR speaker”), I could assembly many different types of setups simply by how presets are constructed.
 
You can do what you are describing, but why? Who needs to cart an amp head and all the extra wiring that would be required? Def Leppard and Metallica gave up on all that.
 
First, who said I am carting anything anywhere? You know what happens when you asume?

Second - why? Because I can, because I am a tech nerd, because I wanted to see if it was possible, because I like tinkering, because I like learning, because I did not want any compromises.

Finally it is my time and my money. Why do you care what I do with it?
 
Capt Nasty said:
First, who said I am carting anything anywhere? You know what happens when you asume?

Second - why? Because I can, because I am a tech nerd, because I wanted to see if it was possible, because I like tinkering, because I like learning, because I did not want any compromises.

Finally it is my time and my money. Why do you care what I do with it?
Click to expand...

I too am a tech nerd. And I am thankful you went through all this time and money only to share this info to a guy like me.

It seems there are a lot of folks here that can't fathom mixing the digital and tube world, and I can see that point of view. Your experience in blending the two with success is what this thread is all about. I was hoping to not spend $3k on a digital box and FC that would not play nice with my $4k tube head and cab. Your experience tells me I can!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom