Reality check tonight

marcusio said:
Let me say something. I understand that everyone has their needs, but modelers are born for a specific reason: to play as similar as possible to the original amplifier, with the advantage of portability. To achive that you need to use the whole chain amp+cab+mic and that's the reason modelers were created for. This is the optimal use condition. Using a modeler into a real amplifier, yes, in some cases it can also work, but it will never be the ideal condition. Personally i have been a Kemper user for quite some time and recently I also bought the Ax8, just to make a comparison between the two systems. Given that in terms of sound quality i do not see big differences, I can still say that the Kemper has a different approach than the Ax8. The Kemper in fact exists in two versions: unpowered and powered. The second one was designed to be able to exploit a real guitar cabinet, excluding the cab sim section. Personally I use the unpowered Kemper because to me the best sound is in any case obtained by going direct, but anyway I know many users of the powered version that are very satisfied with that. The kemper, however, is not a modeler, but uses a different technology, which is known as "profiling", so for example it is also possible to profile the direct sound of a "pre" excluding the final section since the beginning of the process. This usually leads to a better sound when using a guitar cab. The Ax8 is instead a pure modeler, which in my opinion simply expresses the best of itself by going direct into a PA.
So my suggestion is to use the Ax8 direct into a PA. That's always the best option for a modeler. In the case, however, you still prefer to use a guitar cab I suggest you to try a powered Kemper with "direct" profiles.
Click to expand...
You can easily have a cab on stage and an amazing foh sound either the axe 8 or axe 2
Using one amp block
The sounds can be almost identical
Just make an ir of your own and you’ll be having your own stage sound that no one else can just copy the axe fx has no rules or limitations except thee ones you impose on it from your ideas of rules and right and wrong
Just try
And don’t let a form god tell you the proper application of relativity new technologies
 
I think you are on the right path with using the grid layout you posted and trying an SS amp into your cab. I've had good results with a Carvin dcm 200 into a a few 2x12 cabs I have by just making the EQ adjustments.
 
Tpj1333 said:
You can easily have a cab on stage and an amazing foh sound either the axe 8 or axe 2
Using one amp block
The sounds can be almost identical
Just make an ir of your own and you’ll be having your own stage sound that no one else can just copy the axe fx has no rules or limitations except thee ones you impose on it from your ideas of rules and right and wrong
Just try
And don’t let a form god tell you the proper application of relativity new technologies
Click to expand...

Yes of course, as i said, you can just use a guitar cab or do wathever you want, there aren't limitations at all when it comes to finding your tone. But what i wanted to say is that amp modelers are born to emulate guitar amps sounds and put it into a small package with the main purpose of simplifying guitarist's life. And that's the most interesting thing: to have a very good sound and portability. What's the meaning of using an amp modeler and keep carrying all the cumbersome and heavy equipment? If i like my real amp and cab and pedals sound, i just would keep on using those and live in peace, cause in any case adding an amp modeler to that chain leads to more complications most of the time. Of course this is just my opinion about it and as i said before, there is no rule, so you can always experiment, but i'm convinced that the strength of the modeler is simplification and all the rest is just guitarists fetishism :-D
 
Last edited:
I don't even think about trying guitar cab, tube power amp...

I don't think the benefits (if any) compensate the disadvantages. For me.
 
Alright, I'm back from many more hours of tweaking, A/Bing, tweaking and some moderate drinking thrown in to keep me sane.

I've got a bunch of input about what I've learned, but I'm going to focus on what I did to make AB Dream Rigs presets work with my set up, which is AX8 through a tube amp FX loop into a guitar cab.

1) Turn off speaker resonance - low and high. On some amps, specifically some class A amps I just turned it down to 1 or under on both frequencies. This will make EVERY preset quieter and perceived thinner, but in a room with a band the effect is a focused signal. By myself with the resonance at their "as bought" settings, the amps sounded thick and full. In a room with a loud band, the presets were mushy and boomy. Just up the levels to get back to the volume you need.

2) Run the presets through a FX Loop routed off before the cab - and not in the last block. I DO NOT attach the FX Loop to the output. There is no need, as the FX Loop has it's own dedicated output. Attaching the FX Loop to the Output in parallel with the Cab block you will affect the signal of both outputs. If you shunt either output, the remaining output is changed. Someone much smarter than me can explain this.

3) I don't disable amp sims. This definitely works for making the signal to a tube amp easier to transition, but robs the presets of lots of their magic IMO. Chances are, if you have an fx loop on your amp - you have negative feedback in the circuit. I turn the NFB to .1 and then adjust the PA sag to the lowest possible setting before the said preset loses it's character. Now I still have full control of the advanced parameters in the amp block and they are fundamental in making the AX8 sound like a tube amp.

The Dynamic and Xformer settings are incredibly powerful tools in selling the said amp model. The dynamic setting are zero by default and the Xformer match and Drive settings are usually 1 and 1-1.5. These 5 knobs will allow you to dial out any digital fizziness you don't like or bring back any of the cut and thump you feel like you dialed out. I personally found less of both the Xformer settings were key to dialing in high gain amps. You don't need to digitally saturate a digital transformer when you have the real thing working. Magic I tell you!

4) In my experience, most presets through a tube amp set up sound best with the input trim lower. I rarely ever boost an input trim above 1 or 2 and that is only on super saturated high gain tones. On low to medium gain amps and ALL my class A presets I start at .5 and never go above 2. I'm using the same principle here as the master volume. if an amp I'm modeling doesn't have one then adding one will change the amp. It's been mentioned plenty, by way smarter guys than me, but gain staging is important if you are looking for authenticity.

5) Gobs of gain rarely transitions well to a stage IMO. I love high gain tones, but with a digital device you have to be careful. Let the amp and speakers do more work. I've dialed in so many "killer" tones at home that sucked hind tit in a band context. And almost always because they were just overloaded with gain.

After all of this, I can load almost any of AB's presets and tweak them to usable in a matter of minutes. Most importantly I'm still hearing my rig, but with a different vibe. I haven't completely lost what I loved about my gear and I've gained allot of angles.

Happy hunting!
 
Great Thread !!
I am also going FOH out 1 , OUT 2 FXL loop to Tube amp power section, then Guitar Cab

Just realized after the read that my FXL block is in parallels to the CAB and also concerted to the output ? This is bad ?? Never knew this, wow.

What happens in this state configuration to both outputs sonically ?
Thanks !
 
studiodunn said:
5) Gobs of gain rarely transitions well to a stage IMO. I love high gain tones, but with a digital device you have to be careful. Let the amp and speakers do more work. I've dialed in so many "killer" tones at home that sucked hind tit in a band context. And almost always because they were just overloaded with gain.
Click to expand...
+1000
 
teddis said:
Just realized after the read that my FXL block is in parallels to the CAB and also concerted to the output ? This is bad ?? Never knew this, wow.
Click to expand...

This sounds new to me too, and i'm curious to understand this better. Can someone please elaborate?
 
So we definitely need to make sure it is NOT connected to the output rail ???

Man.....many presets to revisit.....and wondering what this did to tone the whole time ??????
 
teddis said:
Great Thread !!
I am also going FOH out 1 , OUT 2 FXL loop to Tube amp power section, then Guitar Cab

Just realized after the read that my FXL block is in parallels to the CAB and also concerted to the output ? This is bad ?? Never knew this, wow.

What happens in this state configuration to both outputs sonically ?
Thanks !
Click to expand...
It sounds like it'd be mixing the harsh amp block without cabinet sound with the amp block and cabinet sounds. It'd make it harsher on output 1 for sure.
 
teddis said:
So we definitely need to make sure it is NOT connected to the output rail ???

Man.....many presets to revisit.....and wondering what this did to tone the whole time ??????
Click to expand...
The FX Loop does not and should not be attached to the output rail.
 
TravisG406 said:
It sounds like it'd be mixing the harsh amp block without cabinet sound with the amp block and cabinet sounds. It'd make it harsher on output 1 for sure.
Click to expand...

I’m assuming this is a function of summed signals. Hard panning the outputs will likely cure this, but detaching the fx loop from the output rail eliminated my need for a work around.
 
I dunno.....I don't have my amp hooked up.

but with Cans on ( Output 1 ) i hear no diff by passing the FXL block
 
I moved to FAS technology with the intent of "keeping it simple." I started with the plan to use a powered FRFR cab and send output 1 to the FOH. It wasn't working for me initially...I tried three different FRFR cabs and was pretty unimpressed with my live sound. I also tried sending the AX8 amp model signal, w/o cab sim, to a power amp with a couple of my favorite guitar cabs. Fail.

After about 3 weeks of experimenting, I gave in and bought an Atomic CLR neo. Boom. That made all the difference in the world to me. Now I'm getting a sound on stage that is quite inspiring and often even better than on-stage sounds I was accustomed to from using my various tube amps for the last 45+ years (largely because I don't have to play as loud). That CLR completely turned my opinion around. My 2 cents, FWIW.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom