Reverb / delay in parallel or serial

J

Jens973

Inspired
HI all

probably this is more kind of philosophic question but I am wondering if there are any benefits to have delay/reverb in parallel to the dry signal instead of having both in serial. In parallel they have a separate volume knob in the output section -> ch1 delay, ch2 dry signal, ch3 reverb and mix is set at 100%.
Well, the obvious thing is that the delay is not going through reverb or vice versa. Are there real benefits or effects ?

Thanks !
 
Let your ears be the judge. I have tried both ways. I prefer to run serial. Just sounds better to me. More organic and natural.
 
Except for keeping the Delay out of the Reverb and vice versa, there is no reason. You can achieve the exact same sounds both ways.

When run in parallel you should say Mix at 100% to avoid getting extra dry signal added. In that case, either Level or Input Gain essentially becomes Mix.

I was schooled by the masters here as I was running my Reverb in parallel before... But it's not necessary.
 
I find that, in series, as you get more reverb, you get less dry signal. That's annoying for me, because I prefer the reverb acting like in a real amp, I mean I like the dry signal stays at the same level, so I'm trying it parallel right now.
 
Rayos said:
I find that, in series, as you get more reverb, you get less dry signal. That's annoying for me, because I prefer the reverb acting like in a real amp, I mean I like the dry signal stays at the same level, so I'm trying it parallel right now.
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That's how Mix works... It's no different in parallel. You are only adjusting the relative mix of dry to effected signal.

What you described is exactly why I used to run Reverb on parallel.

Now, if your parallel Reverb does not have Mix at 100% then you're just fooling yourself by adding dry signal and thus a 6dB boost in overall level.
 
Try it each different way and see what you like...

Hours of discussion on the forum about it if you want to kill an afternoon reading, but really just comes down to what you like.

Nice thing with the Axe is you can set it up one way for one patch, a different way for another.

I sometimes run stuff just in a basic series, and other times I get more complex, depends if I want modulated repeats only etc.

Neither method is 'better', just depends what your trying to accomplish. Its like putting a phaser effect before or after distortion or the amp. It sounds different, but both ways can make cool sounds. What type of sound are you after ?
 
lqdsnddist said:
What type of sound are you after ?
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The point of my comments is that unless you want to separate those two effects from each other, it doesn't matter... Because the same sounds can be achieved depending on settings.

The only real reason I recommend serial is that many people don't really understand parallel, or the requirements to set it up "correctly" (and avoiding common pitfalls) and thus it's more complex.

Do whatever works for you...
 
unix-guy said:
The point of my comments is that unless you want to separate those two effects from each other, it doesn't matter... Because the same sounds can be achieved depending on settings.

The only real reason I recommend serial is that many people don't really understand parallel, or the requirements to set it up "correctly" (and avoiding common pitfalls) and thus it's more complex.

Do whatever works for you...
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I think you took what I was saying out of context... The "what sound are you after" question was in relation to my previous sentence about the tonal differences running a modulation effect before or after dirt. Both work, but it sounds different. Is one right or wrong ? No, same as running delay before an amp block, or reverb before the amp vs after. They just achieve different tones, and emulate certain ways of running effects, such as if someone used an amp without a loop, and they ran all the effects before dirt.

The benefit of one method over the other is what you can do with the routing. If I wanted to have modulated delay, but just on the repeats, I run it parallel, and I can't achieve that with series. In many cases, it really does not make a difference, just different way of settings the mix/level, but in other instances it does.

One can do it either way, but there are also circumstances where you would need to parallel, so thus, it comes down to what type of sound are you after, in regards to if one should or shouldn't do a given routing. We could sum it as as saying "it doesn't matter", with an caveat for those few times when it does.
 
Every little thing makes some sort of of difference. It seems to me that any configuration has some uses, even if there are generally more useful or preferred ways of working.

For lots of basic sounds, for example; a spring reverb and tape echo: having it glued together in a serial configuration sounds "right".

For ambient soundscapes in stereo, its often preferable to have more separation with the delay and chorus output independent of reverb (as others have pointed out). OTOH, you might want to smear the delay with reverb set to roll off the highs in its decay.

Rotary Speaker in particular sounds more like the real deal if its last in the chain or paralleled to the output, not passing through any additional effects: If you want that. However, there are times when having a reverb after the rotary sounds cool: And having rotary or univibe as the first thing the guitar signal hits in the chain has its place, too.

Its easy to over think this: On occasion I just drag the effects blocks around in AX8Edit and see what happens.
 
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Here is my patch if you want to see how I do it. FX Loop is my digitech trio BTW
 

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I've done it.

It works.

Now, with the reverb correctly adjusted in parallel, I can keep the dry signal level and just add reverb to taste.

I'll do it with the delay, too.
 
Rayos said:
Now, with the reverb correctly adjusted in parallel, I can keep the dry signal level and just add reverb to taste.
Click to expand...

See above... Exactly what the Mix control does in series. The end result is the same :)

I'm sure bakerman is going to drop in on this thread any time...
 
unix-guy said:
See above... Exactly what the Mix control does in series. The end result is the same :)

I'm sure bakerman is going to drop in on this thread any time...
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Exactly.

Where most people go “wrong” is they run a parallel effect, and don’t set it to 100% wet, using the level to adjust the reverb etc intensity. They set it to like 50% mix and then they have a louder signal as you have your dry path and than a parallel semi-wet path, with the two chains giving a summed level boost

Mix in series just makes it far easier to understand for many users, as you don’t think about levels, just turn to knob to how apparent you want an effect

I saw that with the caveat that some pedals, firmware versions, and such did have slightly different “mix laws” so things didn’t always work quite as you’d expect, with some stuff never going 100% wet etc

Basically in the Axe though it’s real easy with series and mix knob, which is a good thing overall
 
unix-guy said:
See above... Exactly what the Mix control does in series. The end result is the same :)
Click to expand...

Well, not in my AX8.;)

In series, when in reverb block, If I keep the reverb level at 0 and mix to 0, the sound level is the same with the reverb block on and off.

And as I rise the mix control, the reverb goes up and the dry signal goes down. As expected. Am I missing something?

What I want is the dry signal to stay at the same level with and without the reverb. With the reverb in parallel I get just that.
 
E3DCE189-CD9E-49BB-9E43-EF75C228399D.jpeg Guys... Look at the block diagram for the Reverb. You see the L/R inputs go directly to the Mix section? That IS your dry signal.
 
Rayos said:
And as I rise the mix control, the reverb goes up and the dry signal goes down. As expected.
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The Mix controls the ratio of Dry to Wet signal. Putting a Reverb in parallel and then adding it back to the Dry signal is doing exactly the same thing.
Rayos said:
Then I'm doing something wrong. What could it be?
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What is your Mix setting on your parallel Reverb block? It needs to be 100%.

Can you post a screenshot of your preset?
 
unix-guy said:
The Mix controls the ratio of Dry to Wet signal. Putting a Reverb in parallel and then adding it back to the Dry signal is doing exactly the same thing.

What is your Mix setting on your parallel Reverb block? It needs to be 100%.

Can you post a screenshot of your preset?
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I don't get the same results.
In parallel, the dry signal stays at the same level. I just add reverb.

Yes, in parallel, Mix is set to 100%

I'll put a screen shot as soon as I can. In the morning. It's 20.50 here and I'm not at home.

Thank you.
 
Rayos said:
In parallel, the dry signal stays at the same level. I just add reverb.
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It can't... Impossible, because you are still combining reverb with dry. Therefore, the ratio is affected.

I feel like we are going in circles here. Maybe one of the effects masters will chime in and explain it better than I am.

Trust me, I was in the same boat as you until about a year ago...
 
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