Real tube amp instead of the amp block..a sort of 4CM

dtpancio

Member
So..I just picked up a Mesa/Boogie Mark V 25 and a Two Notes Captor, and I tried to do this:

Guitar-->Axe-Fx's Instr Input-->[pre gain stage effects]-->Axe-Fx's Fx loop send-->Mark V's input-->Mark V's speaker output-->Captor Speaker input-->Captor Line Out-->Axe-Fx's Fx loop return-->[cab block and post gain stage effects]-->Axe-Fx's outputs-->Audio Interface-->Studio Monitors

Just replacing the amp block on my presets with an FXL block.

It's a sort of 4CM because you still have effects pre and post, but you're placing the amp in the FX Loop of the Axe-Fx II and you're not returning into the amp (the tone of which is already pre and power amplified), and then you have stereo effects.

On the paper I think it's a brilliant solution, because you can use the best effects processor on the market, the best IRs, the best amplification (if you have a real amp better than the Axe-Fx II models :D) and you can apply post gain stage effects after the power amp, without any possible compression or loss of quality from the amp's FX loop, stereo, like you do in studio when you apply delays and reverbs in the daw.

So..why I struggled finding information about this kind of rig? Nobody is interested in this routing? Why I only find standard 4CM as integration of a tube amp in the axe fx chain? Maybe there are some cons about it?

Let me hear your thoughts!
 
I think most users just want the most out of their machines and are simd up going through FRFR rigs
 
Here's a totally different way to look at this: Use the Axe-FX as your effects processor and insert it in the loop of the Mark V instead.

To me that actually makes more sense.
 
Guitar-->Axe-Fx's Instr Input-->[pre gain stage effects]-->Axe-Fx's Fx loop send-->Mark V's input-->Mark V's speaker output-->Captor Speaker input-->Captor Line Out-->Axe-Fx's Fx loop return-->[cab block and post gain stage effects]-->Axe-Fx's outputs-->Audio Interface-->Studio Monitors

I also use this method, works like a charm. This way I get to run three amps at the same time. I run an original 1965 JTM45 down the center, and two separate amps left & right channel respectively. sounds pretty incredible to me.
 
Here's a totally different way to look at this: Use the Axe-FX as your effects processor and insert it in the loop of the Mark V instead.

To me that actually makes more sense.

Well, in this traditional way, even if you put a load box after the power amp, you lose pre gain stage effects, post gain stage stereo effects and you have to load an IR in the DAW if your load box isn't an IR loader too.
 
Here's a diagram.
4CM.PNG

I just heard about the X-Load LB1, a loadbox with IR loader and stereo effects. This would be a game changer and it confirms that my needs are not just mine.

An FX8 would be better for this rig if only had the Cab Block..
 
Last edited:
I just heard about the X-Load LB1, a loadbox with IR loader and stereo effects. This would be a game changer and it confirms that my needs are not just mine
Also take a look at this from Two Notes.
https://www.two-notes.com/en/torpedo-studio

I currently run the Palmer speaker sim. But this Two notes LB just has so many features including midi and has the microphone simulation (Which Fractal has not ported to the AXE FX III - Absolute travesty IMHO)
I was really hoping Fractal would bring out a product to better this, but the LB has gone in a slightly different direction.
Different horses for different courses, and all........
 
I could run the cab simulation on the Captor too, which is cool, but I want more control, using my OwnHammer IRs.

The Studio is too pricey and it only has effects regarding the tone, compression, EQ, not much else, not some guitar oriented effects like modulations and delays.

An alternative of the Axe-Fx I think it could be an FX8 in combining with a Two Notes Live or Captor + C.A.B. or some other IR loader.

The are some IR loader pedals on the market, cheaper than the C.A.B., but the question is how good are, how good can load an IR, which max length can handle. IRs are CPU power demanding and you can't place a bad IR/IR loader in the end of a quality chain with a real tube amp, a reactive load and the Axe-Fx.
 
That sounds like a great setup. I'm guessing it's not used too much because that setup requires a load box.
 
That sounds like a great setup. I'm guessing it's not used too much because that setup requires a load box.
I think so, but now that are coming these solutions like the Captor, the X-Load, the one from Suhr, at relatively low prices, I think there will be a small return to real amps, good tube amps at least. Smaller heads and the fact that a small and focused company like Fractal Audio comes out with a load box I think proves that.
 
Hi dtpancio, I would like to know if you've done a long-term test on your setup, because I think it is a great setup which combines the benefits of real tube amps and the axe fx (as IR loader and effects unit) in just the right way. Is there anything one should take into account when setting up such a rig? Any advice on setting levels, using cables, perhaps different inputs on the axe fx? Don't know.... things regarding the loadbox maybe?

Would appreciate some info about your rig and if it's working properly and reliable. Thank you!
 
I just did this with my Axe-III, Two-Notes C.A.B and a Fryette PS-2 to take the load. The results were really good.

I ran a PRS Archon 100 EL34, Mesa Dual Recto RevF, Mesa Dual Recto Blackout Multi-watt and Road King II.

I thought I had the perfect rig until I looked at all I had to run for this setup. For the direct tone in a mix, the difference is negligible.

I also mic'd my cabs and then used a matching IR - in a mix you could easily get confused which was what. The Axe was a little less raw but much cleaner and sat in the mix better just because it was more present.

The Two Notes CAB was pointless at that point due to the fact you can only use single IR combos. I could get better results using the Axe Cab where I could mix multiple IR's or using the Software version where I could mix 2 cabs/IRs.

I just sold all of the heads and the Two-Notes CAB and am running just the AxeIII. I appreciate the simplicity. Although I may pick up a Synergy setup to do this as well, but the more I play I think I would rather invest that money into my studio.
 
Would this work if I would like to reamp tracks with my external preamp (mesa boogie quad) using this method when I have my axe fx connected via USB? Thanks!
 
Here's a diagram.
View attachment 46399

I just heard about the X-Load LB1, a loadbox with IR loader and stereo effects. This would be a game changer and it confirms that my needs are not just mine.

An FX8 would be better for this rig if only had the Cab Block..
I tried this exact setup this week with my Louis Electric Tweed Deluxe clone in a head version and my Motherload Elemental and I love it. First, the brain damaged circuitry of a TD can't be replicated and I find the IR's play better with the real amp, meaning far less mismatches.
 
I have used both my old Ultra and currently my Axe II 4CM for many years, best of both worlds for me.

For those with tube preamps you can do the same thing and use the Axe FX for tube power amp sims, and then out to cab sims/cab - speakers via lightweight solid state power. This eliminates tube power amp "sweet spot" SPL issues, and weighs a lot less LOL!

Make sure you don't kill the amp's input with line level as it's typically expecting instrument level (unless you really need a lot more gain etc?), so watch the level to the amp, and it's return to the Axe as well with the FX Loop Block's controls.
 
Last edited:
Here's a diagram.
View attachment 46399

I just heard about the X-Load LB1, a loadbox with IR loader and stereo effects. This would be a game changer and it confirms that my needs are not just mine.

An FX8 would be better for this rig if only had the Cab Block..
Will this work with an FX8?
More so.. I have a Victory VX100, an FX8, a Captor and I had this setup via 4CM.. Speaker output to speaker input on Captor and then the line out to a MAudio Air... Let's just say that things fizzled out! Not good. Will this setup work correctly that is in the above diagram? I need help! Amp output is 8ohm and so is the Captor.. Surprised that it didnt work well.
 
Last edited:
I do this with my Axe-Fx II + Peavey 5150 II head + Weber Mass 200 and it works really well for me. I've seen some people call this the "2CM"
 
Back
Top Bottom