Headphones vs Monitors

[RKF]

I know that creating presets with headphones is a very bad idea and I never do it. But revisiting presets I've created and auditioning IR's, I can't get around the fact that my headphones, for whatever reason, seem much warmer sounding than my studio monitors. I'm not using the very best equipment but it's certainly not crap.

Signal chain:

AX8-->Focusrite Scarlett 2i4-->JBL LSR305's or Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro headphones. Hi and Lo frequency trims on the JBL's are flat and honestly don't seem to do much when activated anyway. Typically I plug the DT880's into the Scarlett but since the headphone output is so low, I sometimes use a cheap Mackie Mix5 mixer that works much better for headphones. I've been doing a TON of IR auditioning lately and am spending much time trying to make the Celestion IR's sound decent. Thru the JBL's they are harsh and unusable but much darker (sometimes to the point of boomy/muddy) in the headphones.

Anyone have similar experiences? Do you think the JBL's are to blame? The DT's certainly aren't cheap headphones so I want to believe what I'm hearing in them is somewhat accurate. It's just strange as I've always expected headphones to sound thin, harsh and small when compared to actual monitors.

 

[Callan]

Don't forget you are comparing your headphones Vs your Speakers in your room.
Your room may be having a big impact on what you are hearing - the speaker placement in the room might also impact this.
Any reflections in the room, what the walls are made of, what the flood is covered with, etc.
The volume of each would also make a big difference -
It might be worth reading and experimenting with your room setup to see if you can get things more to your liking through your monitors.

 

[ChristThePhone]

For me the headphone sound is hard to beat when using stereo. Going mono will probably make things comparable. Still, the presets I dial in on headphones need a lot of EQing when going FOH.

 

[southbeck]

I believe you have to think more like a sound engineer than a guitarist when dialing presets. It´s more like mixing a guitar track than dialing a guitar amp.

With that I mean i´ts good to use both monitors and headphones. When dialing in the hi-end headphones works really good to me that will translate to Pa with the FM effect and so on. The headphones are blasting straight to your ears and that seems to simulate a Pa at high volume.

And as with mixing, you need to really, really know your speakers or headphones. That´s the key. I would say.

 

[manu68]

If your are not obsessed with sounding like an "amp in the room", playing with headphone is a great solution.
It is also a great solution for your family
It may depends on the type of music too.
But ambient music, things with lots of effects , delays, reverb, ....backtracks, stereo
I play with monitors and headphone. I like them both.
(I have a shure SRH440 Headphone)

 

[DTS]

I'm probably the odd bird here, 'cause I always dial my tone with headphones (can't play through speakers at home #familyguy #playsatnight). I'm so used to this, that I think I know what to listen. My sounds work great at live as well and other ppl have been happy with the presets that I've shared. But I agree, that using headphones will be different thing vs playing through speakers.

 

[wh10]

AX8-->Focusrite Scarlett 2i4-->JBL LSR305's or Beyerdynamic DT880 Pro headphones. Hi and Lo frequency trims on the JBL's are flat and honestly don't seem to do much when activated anyway. Typically I plug the DT880's into the Scarlett but since the headphone output is so low, I sometimes use a cheap Mackie Mix5 mixer that works much better for headphones. I've been doing a TON of IR auditioning lately and am spending much time trying to make the Celestion IR's sound decent. Thru the JBL's they are harsh and unusable but much darker (sometimes to the point of boomy/muddy) in the headphones.

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st Generation) with Sony MDR-7506 headphones. My experience is very different:
1. The headphones sound great. When listening to music I hear details in songs that I never noticed before. They are nicely balanced.
2. The Scarlett 2i4's mic output has plenty of gain. I usually set it at 11 o'clock (not even halfway!).

This makes me wonder if there is something wrong with your Scarlett 2i4 or how it's set up. You might be able to fix it and get great headphone sound quality.

Do the headphones sound bad when listening to music on the computer through the Scarlett 2i4 USB interface?

 

[Ripley]

Anyone have similar experiences? Do you think the JBL's are to blame? The DT's certainly aren't cheap headphones so I want to believe what I'm hearing in them is somewhat accurate. It's just strange as I've always expected headphones to sound thin, harsh and small when compared to actual monitors.

If anything, my experience is the exact opposite of what you are experiencing. I also have JBL 305's, but use AKG702 headphones straight out of the Axe XL, the sound through the monitors is warmer than the headphones, the headphones sound more 'present', a bit like cranking the presence control, and if a preset is dialled too bright, will sound more harsh than through the monitors.

After much experimenting playing with adjusting presets, I realise that a well dialled preset will sound good through both systems, just different as above, probably due to the proximity of the speakers to the ears for the headphones.

It sounds like you have a problem with the Focusrite/Mackie or maybe adjustment of one or the other. By the way, I have only tried the Celestion IR's included in the firmware of the Axe, but find them a little too harsh for my liking.

 

[RKF]

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 (1st Generation) with Sony MDR-7506 headphones. My experience is very different:
1. The headphones sound great. When listening to music I hear details in songs that I never noticed before. They are nicely balanced.

I also have an old pair of 7506's and they're WAY brighter than the DT880's. I can maybe try them again but I recall them sounding even harsher than the LSR 305's.

2. The Scarlett 2i4's mic output has plenty of gain. I usually set it at 11 o'clock (not even halfway!).

I have a different interface that I tried just to eliminate any issues with the Scarlett and it sounded the same.

Do the headphones sound bad when listening to music on the computer through the Scarlett 2i4 USB interface?

Nope, sounds fine.

I've just been auditioning so many IR's lately that I'm losing sight of what sounds "good". Ear fatigue I guess.

 

[RKF]

Possibly totally unrelated, but should the LSR's input sensitivity switch be set to -10 or +4? Any difference in tone? Also, do any of you with these monitors use the high and low trim switches? I believe they offer 2db of attenuation/boost.

 

[RKF]

If your are not obsessed with sounding like an "amp in the room", playing with headphone is a great solution.

Yeah even when I play with a 1x12 cab, I position it directly at me so I get that direct mic'd sound. I'm no fan of off-axis tones. Muddy and not representative of what the audience hears or what's on recordings.

 

[RKF]

Don't forget you are comparing your headphones Vs your Speakers in your room.
Your room may be having a big impact on what you are hearing - the speaker placement in the room might also impact this.
Any reflections in the room, what the walls are made of, what the flood is covered with, etc.
The volume of each would also make a big difference -
It might be worth reading and experimenting with your room setup to see if you can get things more to your liking through your monitors.

Many good points here! Unfortunately my room has no treatment whatsoever. It's a normal sized spare bedroom with carpet. The JBL's are very close to the wall which I understand to not be ideal. Although I would think that would lead to excessive low end rather than harsh high end?

 

[Callan]

Many good points here! Unfortunately my room has no treatment whatsoever. It's a normal sized spare bedroom with carpet. The JBL's are very close to the wall which I understand to not be ideal. Although I would think that would lead to excessive low end rather than harsh high end?

My experience is more live sound rather than home studios, but I find that sometimes we play in really bright rooms and I have to compensate to get the harsh high end out of the speakers.
Low ceilings, bare walls and shiny floors all seem to have the HF bouncing all over the place.
Bass buildup can happen too - it's not independent.

As a bit of a test, why not try and get a thick blanket, duvet etc and put it on the wall behind you to see if it helps (or changes).
You could use some mic/speaker stands and clips to do this without leaving any marks on your wall.