Save I/O input levels

S

stereotactic

Experienced
I wish the 3 would include the input level settings in the I/O menu with each patch we create. I use 2-3 guitars a set and all have different output pickups. It's a drag trying to remember 3 different 3 digit numbers and spinning the knob trying to find them during a set.
 
Set it for your highest guitar and leave it there. It shouldn’t affect your actual volume.
 
chris said:
Set it for your highest guitar and leave it there. It shouldn’t affect your actual volume.
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Understood, except don't the converters work best when the input level is high enough to touch the reds at maximum? As it stands, I've got 30 steps between my highest and lowest guitar outputs...
 
stereotactic said:
Understood, except don't the converters work best when the input level is high enough to touch the reds at maximum? As it stands, I've got 30 steps between my highest and lowest guitar outputs...
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Set it for your hottest pickups, and forget it. Your guitar will still produce more noise than the converters.
 
chris said:
Do you hear any difference?
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I think so, when I adjust for optimal input level it sounds a bit fuller and has more sensitivity? Sometimes I switch guitars and forget to change it, then I notice it doesn't sound the same as the last time I played and remember about the levels.

I understand the set it and forget it idea, but if the level is adjustable and there is an optimal input level for the converters, why not allow it be a part of a patch?
 
Also, feedback onset seems quicker with the level optimized. I sometimes use a lot of feedback and it seems more responsive when set optimally.
 
There are a number of mechanisms available to you to goose the input for your patches. Probably the simplest one is to use a Filter block. Set the type to Null so it becomes a pure level control. You can use channels to have different levels for your different guitars. So adjust your Input for your hottest guitar as Chris suggested. Then you switch channels on the Filter block to match the guitar you're using. You could also use a single channel and use an expression pedal to control the level.
 
stereotactic said:
I think so, when I adjust for optimal input level it sounds a bit fuller and has more sensitivity? Sometimes I switch guitars and forget to change it, then I notice it doesn't sound the same as the last time I played and remember about the levels.

I understand the set it and forget it idea, but if the level is adjustable and there is an optimal input level for the converters, why not allow it be a part of a patch?
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stereotactic said:
Also, feedback onset seems quicker with the level optimized. I sometimes use a lot of feedback and it seems more responsive when set optimally.
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Sorry, but that's purely placebo. Input Level has no effect on gain, volume, tone, feedback etc. (except at extreme settings).
 
yek said:
Sorry, but that's purely placebo. Input Level has no effect on gain, volume, tone, feedback etc. (except at extreme settings).
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Ok, maybe my mind is playing tricks, but then why even have that adjustment in the first place?

Why have guidelines for setting it until you see the reds come on occasionally if it doesn't matter?
 
hippietim said:
There are a number of mechanisms available to you to goose the input for your patches. Probably the simplest one is to use a Filter block. Set the type to Null so it becomes a pure level control. You can use channels to have different levels for your different guitars. So adjust your Input for your hottest guitar as Chris suggested. Then you switch channels on the Filter block to match the guitar you're using. You could also use a single channel and use an expression pedal to control the level.
Click to expand...

Good idea, thanks!
 
stereotactic said:
Ok, maybe my mind is playing tricks, but then why even have that adjustment in the first place?

Why have guidelines for setting it until you see the reds come on occasionally if it doesn't matter?
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That control is there to maximize signal-to-noise ratio at the input. But the noise that your guitar produces is louder than the noise that the Axe’s input produces that the input setting isn’t critical.

As it says in the manual, the main idea is to make sure you’re not clipping the input. If your hottest guitar isn’t clipping the input, then neither are your other guitars. :)
 
Rex said:
That control is there to maximize signal-to-noise ratio at the input. But the noise that your guitar produces is louder than the noise that the Axe’s input produces that the input setting isn’t critical.

As it says in the manual, the main idea is to make sure you’re not clipping the input. If your hottest guitar isn’t clipping the input, then neither are your other guitars. :)
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Sure, I understand the noise issue. But is it not true that there is an optimal/maximal input level to utilize the full processing power of the A/D converters? I'm just trying to make sure I understand all the variables..
 
stereotactic said:
Sure, I understand the noise issue. But is it not true that there is an optimal/maximal input level to utilize the full processing power of the A/D converters? I'm just trying to make sure I understand all the variables..
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Yeah probably but I think you’re overthinking this. Most guitar amps don’t have anything like this at all. It’s not a problem right? If you plug a Vintage style Strat into an amp it will be quieter than a Les Paul. To match, you boost with a pedal or something. With the Axe, there are a lot of ways to boost.
 
stereotactic said:
Sure, I understand the noise issue. But is it not true that there is an optimal/maximal input level to utilize the full processing power of the A/D converters?
Click to expand...
hippietim said:
Yeah probably but I think you’re overthinking this. Most guitar amps don’t have anything like this at all. It’s not a problem right? If you plug a Vintage style Strat into an amp it will be quieter than a Les Paul. To match, you boost with a pedal or something. With the Axe, there are a lot of ways to boost.
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It is certainly possible I am overthinking, a fault shared by all thoughtful people..:)

I understand the noise issue, but as I am new to digital modeling, I want to make sure I understand all the aspects and that there is minimal compromise as things go from mvs to 1's and 0's. But if we are going to continue the analogy between different output pu's into the same real amp, we all know that there are optimal combinations of guitar/pu's and amps, depending on the sound you are going for..:)
 
stereotactic said:
Sure, I understand the noise issue. But is it not true that there is an optimal/maximal input level to utilize the full processing power of the A/D converters? I'm just trying to make sure I understand all the variables..
Click to expand...
The A/D converters use the same processing power whether they're converting a big signal, a small signal, or no signal at all.

Most important is to make sure you're not clipping the converter. That's why you set the Input Level using the hottest pickup on your hottest guitar.

The signal-to-noise ratio is of secondary importance. But the Axe's converters have so much dynamic range that the noise of your guitar will dominate, not the noise of the converters. So you don't have to worry about whether you're tickling the reds with your lower-output guitars.


This question comes up all the time, and the answer is always the same. If only there were a wiki article about it. Oh, wait...
 
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Rex said:
The A/D converters use the same processing power whether they're converting a big signal, a small signal, or no signal at all.

Most important is to make sure you're not clipping the converter. That's why you set the Input Level using the hottest pickup on your hottest guitar.

The signal-to-noise ratio is of secondary importance. But the Axe's converters have so much dynamic range that the noise of your guitar will dominate, not the noise of the converters. So you don't have to worry about whether you're tickling the reds with your lower-output guitars.


This question comes up all the time, and the answer is always the same. If only there were a wiki article about it. Oh, wait...
Click to expand...

As I said above, I understand the clipping and noise issue, and that the compensation for differing pickup outputs is compensated for digitally, after the instrument I/O control. However, the question remains whether this compensation sounds any different when done digitally, or by adjusting the I/O for each guitar to achieve as close to "full scale" for best converter performance.

This from the aforementioned wiki:

"Full-scale is a term that indicates the maximum signal level into or out of an A/D or D/A converter, respectively. With digital converters the best performance is achieved by operating the converter such that the nominal signal level is close to full-scale. The exact voltage is unknown and irrelevant. Most digital gear will have indicators that measure the levels relative to the converter's full-scale value. For example, the input meters on the Axe-Fx indicate the input signal relative to the A/D converter's full-scale valume. The "tickle the red" advice aims to operate the A/D converter near its full-scale value as the red LEDs light at 6 dB below full-scale, or -6 dBFS."

That was the nature of my original wish list request, if there is an improvement in sound quality by adjusting the I/O section level for each guitar individually to get as close to full-scale as possible, it would be great to be able to store that as part of the patch. I'm pretty sure I hear a difference, very subtle to be sure, but it sounds better to my ear when setting the Instrument input level in the I/O for each guitar...
 
I noticed that I seem to clip the input a lot easier than I did on the Axe-FX II. On the Axe-FX II it was OK for it to hit the red but on the Axe-FX III I feel like if it touches the Red I hear clipping noises. The input levels seem to require lower levels also to avoid clipping around 40% for some of my guitars. I also noticed a difference in sound as I turn the input levels lower.
 
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