Advice From Those Who Gig Their AX8

Davus PG

Inspired
If possible I’d like some advice from those of you who have experience of playing your AX8 live.


Since getting my AX8 our band has been on hiatus, but that's set to change in the not too distant future so I need to get myself prepared and want to get it right.


To date I've played the AX8 through a Scarlet 6i6 and a pair of Bowers & Wilkins headphones at home and at rehearsal through Shure SE425 IEMs from our digital mixer (Behringer XR18) as we've been playing in a residential basement where we need to keep noise to a minimum.


Now there straightaway I have a conflict as to my ears it sounds much better through the Bowers & Wilkins but they're not viable for gigging. The bigger issue if course is that my presets are not dialled in for a live situation. I don't have the option of doing that at home, however we'll start rehearsing in a studio at volume soon.


We have our own PA for gigs ( 2x Alto TS112 and 2x Alto Subs) and previously would mic cabs and send drums (electric kit) direct to the PA. Obviously now I have the AX8 I'll want to go direct to the mixer and PA rather than micing a cab.


As I see it my options are:


1) Get a FRFR monitor for dialling in tones & rehearsing. It would also mean I'm good to go for gigs if we stop using IEMs as it can be my stage monitor - and loud enough for venues where a PA isn't required. It seems that the majority of people feel FRFR is the way to get the most out of modellers. However am I right in thinking the audience wouldn't get the benefit as they're hearing the PA and that won’t necessarily sound the same as what I dial in on the FRFR?


2) Get an Alto TS212 and use that to dial in tones & for rehearsing. It can double as an on stage monitor when required and has the benefit of me knowing that what I'm dialling in is virtually identical to what the audience will hear. Downside is from what I understand it's not the "best" sound I could be getting, although I appreciate that's subjective.


3) Get a power amp like a Matrix GT1000FX and use that with my H&K 2x12 cab for rehearsing and monitoring. This makes use of the cab that's been gathering dust since I got the AX8, but the downside of this is if I want to still go direct to FOH then my stage sound is potentially significantly different.


Presumably those of you who gig regularly have your tones set up how you like them – probably with FRFR monitors, but then are at the mercy of the PA system and the engineer where you play? I could be overthinking this and wildly overestimating how different the sound will be when pumped through a PA rather than a FRFR speaker.

I know I need to get in a room and crank it up ASAP, but any steer before I do that would be great.
 
If I just remember to turn up my studio monitors much louder than I would for mixing, I find that my patches translate well to our PA. I can also build patches on headphones, but such patches usually require a bit more tweaking.

If you have your own PA, find a place, where you can crank it for an hour or two. I think you will find that you don't need that much tweaking.
 
If possible I’d like some advice from those of you who have experience of playing your AX8 live.


Since getting my AX8 our band has been on hiatus, but that's set to change in the not too distant future so I need to get myself prepared and want to get it right.


To date I've played the AX8 through a Scarlet 6i6 and a pair of Bowers & Wilkins headphones at home and at rehearsal through Shure SE425 IEMs from our digital mixer (Behringer XR18) as we've been playing in a residential basement where we need to keep noise to a minimum.


Now there straightaway I have a conflict as to my ears it sounds much better through the Bowers & Wilkins but they're not viable for gigging. The bigger issue if course is that my presets are not dialled in for a live situation. I don't have the option of doing that at home, however we'll start rehearsing in a studio at volume soon.


We have our own PA for gigs ( 2x Alto TS112 and 2x Alto Subs) and previously would mic cabs and send drums (electric kit) direct to the PA. Obviously now I have the AX8 I'll want to go direct to the mixer and PA rather than micing a cab.


As I see it my options are:


1) Get a FRFR monitor for dialling in tones & rehearsing. It would also mean I'm good to go for gigs if we stop using IEMs as it can be my stage monitor - and loud enough for venues where a PA isn't required. It seems that the majority of people feel FRFR is the way to get the most out of modellers. However am I right in thinking the audience wouldn't get the benefit as they're hearing the PA and that won’t necessarily sound the same as what I dial in on the FRFR?


2) Get an Alto TS212 and use that to dial in tones & for rehearsing. It can double as an on stage monitor when required and has the benefit of me knowing that what I'm dialling in is virtually identical to what the audience will hear. Downside is from what I understand it's not the "best" sound I could be getting, although I appreciate that's subjective.


3) Get a power amp like a Matrix GT1000FX and use that with my H&K 2x12 cab for rehearsing and monitoring. This makes use of the cab that's been gathering dust since I got the AX8, but the downside of this is if I want to still go direct to FOH then my stage sound is potentially significantly different.


Presumably those of you who gig regularly have your tones set up how you like them – probably with FRFR monitors, but then are at the mercy of the PA system and the engineer where you play? I could be overthinking this and wildly overestimating how different the sound will be when pumped through a PA rather than a FRFR speaker.

I know I need to get in a room and crank it up ASAP, but any steer before I do that would be great.


The main thing is setting up YOUR sound to sound good to you through your own monitoring system (FRFR etc). As many will agree, it's all about dialling in at volume on your rig. However, once you get to any venue, you really can't be worrying about what the PA there will be like or how it will sound out of their speakers, rather than yours.... that's in the hands of the PA gods and the local sound guy!

All you can do is make sure you've dialled in to be as accurate as possible on what you use at stage volume, so you can play and enjoy what you play - the rest is up to the sound guy. The audience will not give a hoot and just get on with drinking and dancing as they see fit!
 
I use your option 2.
Dial in live patches with a Ts212 at home, then bring it to rehearsal. I used to also bring it to shows as an extra monitor, but now I only do that if I know the venue will be under-equipped.
The downside is that sitting down with a cranked Ts212 making a patch that sounds good live kind of sucks. Hard on the ears, and will always be sounding kind of brash and unsatisfying. But if you did it right, it will sound great in the mix.

I think that there is too much made around here about trust issues with the sound person. Even if you brought a cab/power amp, you're still trusting that when he/she is rushing to set up and place a mic and then work the board, that they will make the right decisions. Bringing the AX8 to a gig is just like handing them the cable of a mic that you placed exactly where you want it, and the rest is in their hands.
 
There is no way to make your patches 100% gig ready without a couple rehearsals with the rest of the band. I would recommend you add some volume\filter blocks that give you +3db and -3db to every patch.

Also, I would use your IEM's and the Alto PA (you already own) and see how that sounds with the full band in the mix.
 
We gig with Alto TS112A speakers. I hooked up my AX8 to those speakers and mixed my patches for those speakers. (We play pop, rock & country covers). My channel on the mixing board (QSC TM16) is set flat. All my guitar EQ is done on my AX8. So at the very least, when I am playing my rig and my PA, my guitar sounds like I want it to. Work on your presets at the loudest volume you can to simulate gig volume. This process works well when I provide all the sound. Now, when I play festivals and sound is provided, I ALWAYS send the sound company a note in advance, introducing my band, myself and I spell out the gear I use. ("I use an FAS AX8, and go direct into the board via XLR, etc".). You would be amazed at how many sound guys genuinely appreciate this. So when I show up to the festival, I meet the guy I've emailed with and just remind him to set my channel flat. Then in sound check, we can tweak the EQ as needed.
 
@richb

Thank you that's great to know.

Brought home a TS112a tonight so can start using my patches as loud as i can get away with at home and then book myself into a local studio for a few hours to really turn it up and fine tune.

Do you use the output EQ for setting your presets on the AX8 or do you do it per preset?
 
1) Get a FRFR monitor for dialling in tones & rehearsing. However am I right in thinking the audience wouldn't get the benefit as they're hearing the PA and that won’t necessarily sound the same as what I dial in on the FRFR?
If the crowd is hearing the PA, then you want to minimize your stage bleed. If you're running a real cab, your stage bleed will be piercing out front, but muddy off center. But if
you're running FRFR on stage, your stage bleed will be uniform across the house, and it will sound similar to FOH. That's a better situation for everyone.
 
A PA system IS FRFR. In theory, there is little difference between a PA speaker, a stage wedge monitor and a guitar FRFR speaker. If your tones sounds vastly different through the PA compared to your FRFR, it is most likely because the sound guy has tweaked the EQ your channel to fit your sound into your band's mix.
 
@richb

Thank you that's great to know.

Brought home a TS112a tonight so can start using my patches as loud as i can get away with at home and then book myself into a local studio for a few hours to really turn it up and fine tune.

Do you use the output EQ for setting your presets on the AX8 or do you do it per preset?
I like to EQ per Preset.
 
A PA system IS FRFR. In theory, there is little difference between a PA speaker, a stage wedge monitor and a guitar FRFR speaker. If your tones sounds vastly different through the PA compared to your FRFR, it is most likely because the sound guy has tweaked the EQ your channel to fit your sound into your band's mix.

I've seen this surmise/premise elsewhere but I just don't understand it if it's true . Each PA speaker/system I've owned or used is very different. They're not tuned to be the same as these FRFR guitar amp cabs. . (not to me anyway) . . I have QSC K10's I've used for my band's monitors since the first couple months they were released but none of my PA speakers sound like them. . . What am I missing?

Eric
 
I've seen this surmise/premise elsewhere but I just don't understand it if it's true . Each PA speaker/system I've owned or used is very different. They're not tuned to be the same as these FRFR guitar amp cabs. . (not to me anyway) . . I have QSC K10's I've used for my band's monitors since the first couple months they were released but none of my PA speakers sound like them. . . What am I missing?

Eric
You're right. Your monitors won't sound exactly the same as the PA. And two PAs will sound different from each other. Part of the difference is the fact that you and the audience are in very different acoustic situations. You're on a raised stage with maybe a lower ceiling—essentially in a different room. And you're in the near or mid field of your monitor, while the audience is in a far-field situation. And different speakers just sound different.

Your monitors will still sound more uniform and more like the PA than a guitar cab will.
 
everything sounds different. even the same speaker in different positions will sound different. so i create my tones with the same setup, being as consistent as possible, then learn how to adjust basic EQ when needed since everything will be different at the gig. most of the time it's actually pretty close to what i want. the usual situation though is the PA system at the gig as way too much bass and treble frequencies, and i just have to dial those back on the Mixer channel.

this isn't something unique to going direct with an Axe-Fx or even any other modeler. when you use a real amp and cab and just slap a mic on it, people say they get a consistent sound, but they are only hearing their amp and cab. from there, the mic placement, sound system, EQ and other things can drastically change the sound for better or for worse.

being on stage with the real amp cab is nice because it's consistent, but if you are really concerned with what the audience is hearing, it's tough to know what it sounds like because the real amp needs to be at that volume to create that tone.

with modelers, you can turn off the stage volume and still get the same signal to the audience, changing what you need to for it to sound the way you want.

i think it's much easier to adjust the EQ with a modeler than with a real amp and cab, especially in the typical very small rooms we play music in these days.
 
I've seen this surmise/premise elsewhere but I just don't understand it if it's true . Each PA speaker/system I've owned or used is very different. They're not tuned to be the same as these FRFR guitar amp cabs. . (not to me anyway) . . I have QSC K10's I've used for my band's monitors since the first couple months they were released but none of my PA speakers sound like them. . . What am I missing?

Eric
I think, Rex and Chris already answered this, and I don't know what to add to their comments, other than yes, speakers sound different, but they all have more or less the same end goal (except for near, mid and far field applications)
 
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Thank you for all the replies.

I'm having great success using the Alto and good to know it should largely be the sound I'll be getting FOH once we start gigging again.

Also discovered the Friedman Small Box which is my new favourite do it all amp to date. It was super easy to set up from clean to mean with a few scene controllers and combined with a drive block and the boost switch gives me every sound I'd ever need for the music we play.
 
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