Changing tubes...no real difference.

Intheband

Inspired
I am an old school junkie. I know tube sound. After being sold over to the fx system, mainly due to convenience and close proximity to real amps(by the boat load), I thought I would try some test amps and see what I could come up with. I favor 6l6 and kt66, kt88 tubes for the phat overhead they produce. Not to start a tone war or anything, it's just that el34's don't do it for me. So anyway, I delve into the amp page and started changing the tubes around. I didn't notice any difference in tone. Am I missing something here? I am listening through head phones, so maybe that is part of it, but was hoping to get a little better effect than what I am getting now.
Thanks
 
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Wow Chris, thanks. Really wasn't expecting to take a coarse on audio engineering just to get my tone set up. Maybe I'll just keep my head and run the fx thru. Thanks
 
Wow Chris, thanks. Really wasn't expecting to take a coarse on audio engineering just to get my tone set up. Maybe I'll just keep my head and run the fx thru. Thanks
or just not worry about changing tubes, and try all the different amp models. you don't need to touch any of that just to get tone. you don't need to adjust all of those things on a real amp. no need to do it here.

i wouldn't worry about the Power Tube parameter. what i linked is the explanation. i don't understand it. i don't need to. there are so many amp models, i just try them until i find what i like. i don't adjust ANY advanced parameters these days. basic only.

this is a very, very common stigma with the axe-fx - a) that you have to use amp models you are familiar with b) that you have to adjust advanced parameters to make it sound good. definitely try other amp models.
 
Slightly confused after reading that wiki article ..... it's almost contradictory ... but I think I get it .... different tubes don't have different tone .... but the different types of tubes all cause a different reaction within the signal circuit that alters the ...ummm... tone.

The altering of HF and LF resonance values is maybe the top tip in there I think.
 
Hehe, yeah. I get it. This is one massive beast for sure. I don't recall seeing anything listing the names of amps and what tubes they have. Mainly just cabs and speakers. I'm sure I ll stumble on it eventually.
Happy hunting!
Thanks again.
 
Use your ears to select amp models, not notions of what you think "should" sound best.

Guitar players as a whole aren't a very technically literate lot, and most of the secrets to "tone" or "mojo" are just self-confirming bias based off faulty assumptions. Some rock star get misquoted, it spreads through the internet, and next thing you know the masses accept it as a "truth" to getting great tone. There is no real truth to it, but people hear what they want to hear.

Next thing you know, a guy who buys a $20 Chinese tube-screamer clone is able to rehouse it in a new box, "goop" the circuit board, and people are waiting 6 months to pay him $400 for the magical pedal, and thread after thread starts on the internet with folks claiming how it sounds so much better than anything else on the market etc etc.

Essentially it comes down to us hearing what we want to hear, often when its the exact same amp model, or tube type etc. Our expectations and preconceived notions run rampant.

I would wager any amount of money that you could take an Axe-Fx amp model, not change a single thing about it, except rename it and claim its modeled off some guitar hero's personal amp and people would swear up and down its the best amp model they've ever heard, even though its just an existing model they've heard tons of times. We hear what we expect to hear, instead of actually listening to our ears.

Don't worry about the label of the amp, or what tube it uses etc, just listen to the sound it produces and if you like that sound.
 
Slightly confused after reading that wiki article ..... it's almost contradictory ... but I think I get it .... different tubes don't have different tone .... but the different types of tubes all cause a different reaction within the signal circuit that alters the ...ummm... tone.

The altering of HF and LF resonance values is maybe the top tip in there I think.


Agreed. I thought it odd to lead so forcefully with the idea that tubes "don't have a sound". Neither does a volume pot, or capacitor. Or software. But they all affect changes in the context of a specific circuit that is meant to produce sound.

Things can get pretty philosophical when you start exploring what it means to "have a sound."

It's a great article/post, and I've read it several times. I dig those Cliff Notes.
 
Crank the volume up? You wouldn't play at low volumes with a real amp, they need to get played at least at a bit of volume to sound right and display all the details and to add some pressure. With a modeler you get tempted to turn up presence for the missing details instead and turn up depth to add some pressure. That's something you couldn't do that much with a real amp, limited ranges of the knobs, so you'd turn up the volume until it sounds right.
Just do it with the modeler the same way. It's about the fletcher-munson thing and about how amps are constructed.
When you play loud enough you can hear the differences of the tubes. I'd say give the 6550 a shot as well, it should fit to your list of favorites.
 
I don't notice any difference either......but then I accepted it and don't touch it ever.
I seem to gravitate towards 6L6 stock amps though...
 
I think the big difference with changing the power amp tubes is more of a dynamic difference in your attack. Most of the tone in an amp doesnt necessarily come from the tubes, and much of the tone that DOES comes from tubes is from the preamp tubes. That said I do notice a difference personally. I was just testing it out the other day with the JCM800 model because I used to own one that originally had EL34s and I had it rebiased for KT88s. The biggest difference I noticed with the real amp was that it was a bit tighter and had more bass as in I could physically feel it rumble the room a little bit. It was nearly identical with the Axe FX. I actually posted a whole thing about how nostalgic I got when I did this. Im personally running the Axe into the QSC PLD 4.2 into a Marshal 1960A with gt12-75s and v30s in an "x" pattern and I crank it up a bit so the cab is moving some air. A lot of the subtle differences are much more noticeable at mid to high volumes.
 
I just spent an hour playing the supertweed. At stock settings the master is at max. You can really hear the difference switching from a 6l6 to a 6v6. The feel really changes from tube to tube. I can lose hours playing the non master volume amps. Really fun with single coils too.
 
The basic idea is that in a real amp when you change from tube type A to tube type B, you'll hear a difference because the amp is setup to use tube type A.

In the Axe-Fx, when you change tube types, the amp's internal components are instantly reconfigured for the new tube type, so the difference is going to be incredibly subtle. I personally can't even claim to hear a difference when changing tube types.

I'm honestly not even sure what the point of changing tube types is at all given that the amp instantly reconfigures itself for the new tube type, actually. Maybe I just have tin ears and can't hear the difference either way, hah.
 
There certainly is a difference in SOME amps... perhaps the non-MV amps, more than the "preamp gain" amps, as others noted.
My fave amp used to be the Deluxe Reverb... until I swapped out the 6L6's in the Carr Rambler for 6V6's. Now, that's my fave DR sound– like the Fender, but "juicier".
 
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