The Power of Pre-EQ

Thread resurrect...

Try this:
Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

Works great in front of Plexis and other old non-MV amps to add chime and boost.

I will try this out for sure...am currently using a GEQ or a PEQ before the amp block as my "Drive" pedal for solo/boosts on all my amps/presets, 99% of which are NMV amps...
 
Thread resurrect...

Try this:
Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

Works great in front of Plexis and other old non-MV amps to add chime and boost.

Excellent tip. I have a Filter block in most presets before the Amp block(s), set at 8dB, because I prefer that to the built-in Boost parameter (easily switchable). I've replaced that with these settings. Level at about 4-5 dB.
 
Sometimes a simple filter block with limited parameters is all you need vs a GEQ/PEQ...I tried this tonight and liked what it did to my 1987x preset. Another tool in the box...
 
I am a rookie too and yesterday I decided to test the pre eq features on patches. It was a learning curve day. I really enjoyed playing with my Axe Edit. I even got close to a Boston (Peace of Mind) sound. No need to tone match, just messing with the pre eq and amp settings (with eq too). Thanks for the tech note. After I got the sound I wanted I started playing with cabs. Changing cabs really make a difference on the sounds. Living and learning. I love my Fractal gear. And of course at the end of the day I realized how Simeon, Fremen and other hot Axe pragramers are really fantastic dudes. These guys' patches are great. You guys rock.
 
I am a rookie too and yesterday I decided to test the pre eq features on patches. It was a learning curve day. I really enjoyed playing with my Axe Edit. I even got close to a Boston (Peace of Mind) sound. No need to tone match, just messing with the pre eq and amp settings (with eq too). Thanks for the tech note. After I got the sound I wanted I started playing with cabs. Changing cabs really make a difference on the sounds. Living and learning. I love my Fractal gear. And of course at the end of the day I realized how Simeon, Fremen and other hot Axe pragramers are really fantastic dudes. These guys' patches are great. You guys rock.

The first Boston album is all about pre-EQ. They didn't use Rockmans on that album. It was cranked Marshalls with pre-EQ. Lots of midrange boost. You can clearly hear the difference when they switched to Rockmans. The tone isn't nearly as good on the later albums, sounds fake and overly compressed.
 
The first Boston album is all about pre-EQ. They didn't use Rockmans on that album. It was cranked Marshalls with pre-EQ. Lots of midrange boost. You can clearly hear the difference when they switched to Rockmans. The tone isn't nearly as good on the later albums, sounds fake and overly compressed.

Yep. From Third Stage on, the guitars sound like $hit IMO. Same for those horrid sampled drums and cymbals. I understand his pride in his invention, and the marketing advantage to using it on his recordings. But I always ask myself how he could not hear the superiority of the first two records. DLB used a combination of Rockman and Marshall. It's pretty easy to tell which is which.
 
I've seen pic's of his old pedal board and the settings were something like, 100 Hz = +3, 200 Hz = +3, 400 Hz = +9, 800 Hz = +12, 1.6 K = +3, 3.2 K =+9.
 
The first Boston album is all about pre-EQ. They didn't use Rockmans on that album. It was cranked Marshalls with pre-EQ. Lots of midrange boost. You can clearly hear the difference when they switched to Rockmans. The tone isn't nearly as good on the later albums, sounds fake and overly compressed.

I saw Boston last summer. All of their tones were totally spot on and the band played well. The dude taking on the Brad Delp duties did an honorable job - tough shoes to fill there.

The problem with the show was the over all sound. The venue is open air and flat seating. But Boston is arena rock. That music counts on having a judicious amount of reverb on the overall mix and they just could not seem to capture that outdoors. So the guitars sounded small. I've seen all kinds of other bands there and none had that problem because none of them had that guitar tone dialed into sit in the mix before it hit the mix.
 
As outlined in the MIMIC white-paper the fundamental paradigm of distorted guitar tone is EQ -> Distortion -> EQ. For higher gain tones the post-EQ is typically the tone stack and the Presence and Depth controls, when available. Therefore the user has access to the post-EQ but no control over the pre-EQ. One notable exception to this rule is the Mesa Mark series of amplifiers where the tone stack is located before the distortion.

I suppose the ultimate amplifier would be one with dedicated pre-EQ and post-EQ controls although I can imagine many guitar players with looks of bewilderment when presented with such an amp. Indeed I believe there was an amp years ago that had separate input and output graphic EQs. I'm thinking it was made by Seymour Duncan but it was a long time ago so I'm not really sure. I don't believe it was terribly successful.

So as we delve into the realms of higher gain tones we are the mercy of the amp designer and his choice of pre-EQ. The standard practice is to cut the lows before the distortion stages. There are various approaches to this: small coupling caps, partially bypassed cathodes, etc. These are simple methods and given the relatively simple nature of tube amps all we can really expect. Other popular pre-EQ techniques are shelving filters, i.e. the Marshall 470K, 470pF network and networks which roll off highs.

The pre-EQ, along with the post-EQ, shapes the tone when the amount of distortion is low. As the distortion increases the tone becomes more dependent upon the post-EQ. Anyone who has adjusted a Mesa Mark series amp will attest to the seeming ineffectiveness of the tone controls at higher gains. They will also attest to the affect the tone controls have on the feel.

So... the pre-EQ is an important part of the overall tone equation. We guitarists tend to focus upon the post-EQ and put graphic or parametric EQs after the amp but we neglect the pre-EQ. Therefore it is worthwhile to experiment with pre-EQ. The simplest approach to start with is using a graphic EQ before the amp block. Note how boosting or cutting certain bands affects the tone and feel. Note how the effect changes as the gain is increased or decreased.

One popular studio technique in the 80's was to put a parametric EQ before an amp and boost a narrow band of frequencies. This gives a slight mid-emphasis to the sound and can be useful in helping the guitars stand out in a mix. This technique seems to have been lost over the years. Years ago Micheal Sweet from Stryper showed me the frequencies he used and IIRC he boosted around 800 Hz about 6 dB. I don't remember the Q but I would start around 1.4. Incidentally the frequencies he were boosting are just about the same as the frequencies that are cut by the tone stack. So when playing softly the net result is a flatter EQ. As you play harder the input EQ becomes less effective and the tone becomes more scooped.

Pre-EQ can make amps sound warmer, or tighten the bass. It can be used to increase brightness without becoming harsh. Pre-EQ is also very useful with amps on the verge of breakup or mildly overdriven. Experiment with boosting frequencies to give your leads a more vocal character or make them more unique.

that's how adam jones gets his tone out of a marshall super bass. he puts a boss graphic EQ in front and slams the mids, the parked wah bandwidth area. i like using a parametric to add a wide high shelf from 3k up, and a wide peak between about 40 and 100, about 3-6db each. it helps A LOT to bypass everything except the dry electric signal and the input EQ to hear what kind of fundamental you're feeding the amp...if you can get it sounding rich and natural in it's naked state, plug it in and you will be well rewarded.
 
My first ever overdrive pedal by PEARL had a PEQ built in. That taught me so much about pre-EQ

Anyone remember amptone.com? The guy was, well, extreme, but he had the Pre-EQ/Distortion/Post-EQ subject well-covered.

In an extreme sense, a cocked-wah provides an example of what pre-EQ does.
That what Jaabs from the Scorpions did.
 
As outlined in the MIMIC white-paper the fundamental paradigm of distorted guitar tone is EQ -> Distortion -> EQ. For higher gain tones the post-EQ is typically the tone stack and the Presence and Depth controls, when available. Therefore the user has access to the post-EQ but no control over the pre-EQ. One notable exception to this rule is the Mesa Mark series of amplifiers where the tone stack is located before the distortion.

I suppose the ultimate amplifier would be one with dedicated pre-EQ and post-EQ controls although I can imagine many guitar players with looks of bewilderment when presented with such an amp. Indeed I believe there was an amp years ago that had separate input and output graphic EQs. I'm thinking it was made by Seymour Duncan but it was a long time ago so I'm not really sure. I don't believe it was terribly successful.

So as we delve into the realms of higher gain tones we are the mercy of the amp designer and his choice of pre-EQ. The standard practice is to cut the lows before the distortion stages. There are various approaches to this: small coupling caps, partially bypassed cathodes, etc. These are simple methods and given the relatively simple nature of tube amps all we can really expect. Other popular pre-EQ techniques are shelving filters, i.e. the Marshall 470K, 470pF network and networks which roll off highs.

The pre-EQ, along with the post-EQ, shapes the tone when the amount of distortion is low. As the distortion increases the tone becomes more dependent upon the post-EQ. Anyone who has adjusted a Mesa Mark series amp will attest to the seeming ineffectiveness of the tone controls at higher gains. They will also attest to the affect the tone controls have on the feel.

So... the pre-EQ is an important part of the overall tone equation. We guitarists tend to focus upon the post-EQ and put graphic or parametric EQs after the amp but we neglect the pre-EQ. Therefore it is worthwhile to experiment with pre-EQ. The simplest approach to start with is using a graphic EQ before the amp block. Note how boosting or cutting certain bands affects the tone and feel. Note how the effect changes as the gain is increased or decreased.

One popular studio technique in the 80's was to put a parametric EQ before an amp and boost a narrow band of frequencies. This gives a slight mid-emphasis to the sound and can be useful in helping the guitars stand out in a mix. This technique seems to have been lost over the years. Years ago Micheal Sweet from Stryper showed me the frequencies he used and IIRC he boosted around 800 Hz about 6 dB. I don't remember the Q but I would start around 1.4. Incidentally the frequencies he were boosting are just about the same as the frequencies that are cut by the tone stack. So when playing softly the net result is a flatter EQ. As you play harder the input EQ becomes less effective and the tone becomes more scooped.

Pre-EQ can make amps sound warmer, or tighten the bass. It can be used to increase brightness without becoming harsh. Pre-EQ is also very useful with amps on the verge of breakup or mildly overdriven. Experiment with boosting frequencies to give your leads a more vocal character or make them more unique.

Thaaaanks!! :)
 
Thread resurrect...

Try this:
Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

Works great in front of Plexis and other old non-MV amps to add chime and boost.

I'll do that!
 
Try this:
Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

Do this! No really, do this. Then save the filterblock under the name WOW in your library and from there insert it in the new Bank A factory presets before the amp. Are these great usable guitartones or what? What a "hidden gem" this suggestion is. And don't reserve it for the factory presets, drop it in your own presets as well. I know I did!
 
I am a dedicated supporter of using a 1/3 octave EQ in my effects loop and tweaking EVERY slider. This can put the final polish on your tone in a way that no lower resolution tone shaping tools can do.

Note, every Bradshaw rack you ever saw a photo of back in the 80s featured two or three 1/3 octave EQs in it. For the same reason. Back then I had no idea why they were there, until I tried an EQ in my loop once. I've never taken it out of my loop ever since. I did upgrade to a digital Alesis EQ, though.

I have yet to experiment with the EQ possibilities in my Axe-FX II. That's because UPS is supposed to deliver it tomorrow.
 
this place is a wealth of great info I have already learned so much in my short time here I have spent time in character now settings now to try and get a handle on pre EQ ..
 
Unbelievable. We are so lucky to be in this club. But even that's unfair - it's like being in another world. I get lost in this forum and my AX8 nearly every day/night ;)
 
OMG! This may be an old thread but these filter block settings Cliff shared was just awesome!
Thread resurrect...

Try this:
Put a Filter block before the amp block set as follows:
Type: Peaking
Freq: 2000 Hz
Q: 0.5
Gain: 8 dB (adjust to taste)
Lowcut: 60 Hz
Hicut: 3500 Hz
Level: Adjust to taste

Works great in front of Plexis and other old non-MV amps to add chime and boost.
 
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