Am I the only one who doesn't care for full range systems?

OK...I don't want the conversation to devolve into a "my way is best and everyone else sucks" thread so...

Anyway, I see a lot of fellow AxeFx users swear by them and I'm sure for some applications they make sense but in my experience, I wanted my AxeFx to replace my various tube rigs and I found that there were maybe 3-4 different speakers I ever gravitated towards no matter what tube amp I was using...so when I tried out a FR/FR system I found I wasn't getting the kind of tone and feel I was used to. It sounded OK but it felt and sounded...I don't know...sterile or stiff is probably the best way I could describe it...at least compared to what I'm used to. Maybe too "mixed" is a better term. I felt that if I were playing in a band that used backing tracks or electronic beats live, or if I was playing with a pop singer who wanted everything to sound just like their recordings live, a FR/FR system would make more sense contextually.

For me, in a live band situation for the kind of music I most enjoy playing I find running the AxeFx with the cab sims off (I use the sims for direct recording) into a Matrix power amp and a pair of cabs with high powered guitar speakers (I like the combination of the Eminence Tonker and their EV clone) really gives me the sound and feel of my favorite amps. I've owned my AxeFx rig for about a year and a half now and I couldn't be happier with it. It's totally changed the way I create music in the best possible ways while retaining the things about the guitar in terms of tone and feel that I have always loved.

Anyway...which do you prefer and why? :)
 
Lots of people prefer cabs to FRFR, it gives you that "amp in the room" sound you get from being in the same room as a 4x12.
Your audience will not be getting the same tone you are hearing on stage though! Some of the audience will be getting blasted with high frequencies and some of them will be getting a wall of mud depending on where they are standing. it will matter less if you are playing at a lower level and have a loud PA to override your volume but generally cabs suck for a lot of the audience.
 
I just came from a rehearsal where I put a CLR at one side and my Port City (through Matrix) at the other, and switched while playing. I can get very similar tones from both sides, especially with low-passing in the Cab block, and the new Motor Drive helps a lot too. The remaining difference is that FRFR is still based on close micing, which is another type of tone.
I prefer a guitar cab on stage (I use an IR for FOH), unless the situation calls for a wedge.
 
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I use a real cab ( port city and matrix amp - like yek) - and I like it.. because it sounds and feels "real" to me... " real" being a relative term these days...I don't have to mess with a cab block, which is just one more thing to mess with... I look at it this way - people have been miking cabinets FOREVER... until things like the axe fx existed - this is how live sound was "done".... you have your tone, you get to the venue, you mike you cabinet - done.... this is what the best guitar players with the best tone that have ever lived have done. Aside from having one less thing to bring to a show ( a cabinet) - i just don't see the downside to a real cab.... Granted - I use the shit out of IR's for recording in my home, directly to a DAW - but for live use, for me - a real cab is still the way to go.... Just my opinion....
 
I tried various mid level FRFR speakers, it was not for me. I liked the JBL LSR monitors, but they did not hav enough SPL for me. I recently went back to using a Mesa 2:50 and a Fryette 412, much happier now. As long as I don't have to move them.
 
My thought is, if you are going to go FRFR...you are really saying "I want a high end audio system that plays at loud levels". So I see a lot of frfr products that are geared for guitar players ...but why? What you really want is a high end PA. That's why I spent the money and bought a pair of JBL SRX812Ps. Expensive, yes...but you get a whole lot of uses out of these guys besides the guitar.

Also, the kind of music sometimes dictates direction. For some, who are really focusing on "their" 4x12 cab sound, a 4x12 makes perfect sense. For folks who want to take an old baby fender tweed amp model and pair it with a low wattage 12inch speaker emulation, then flip to a vox amp with 2-12s, then to a Marshall stack...maybe frfr is where it's at. I'm not saying you can't do something good with a 4x12, but you have to work at it, maybe quite a bit more if you have several setups. And if you ever change cabs...uh oh. ;)
 
I play in a loud metal band. Raw crunch is my preferred sound and my frfr setup sounds way better than my 4x12's or 2x12's I've had. I've A/B'd one next to the other and everyone in the band picked the frfr setup as better. It takes a while to figure out how to dial it in but once you do it just keeps getting better the more time spent. Certainly no lack of amp in the room for me.
 
old old debate; It boils down to what YOU as the guitarist want to hear vs the Audience/others. A 'real cab' is only basically ever heard by the guitar player, unless you are Kiss or Old Vanhalen and have literally walls of 4x12 stacks! Assuming a good IR= Mic'd cab All recordings and FOH, PA systems are IR sounds. So again its one guy or the audience. I guess the perfect thing is 4x12 for you and AXE/IR to foh.
 
OK...I don't want the conversation to devolve into a "my way is best and everyone else sucks" thread so...

Anyway, I see a lot of fellow AxeFx users swear by them and I'm sure for some applications they make sense but in my experience, I wanted my AxeFx to replace my various tube rigs and I found that there were maybe 3-4 different speakers I ever gravitated towards no matter what tube amp I was using...so when I tried out a FR/FR system I found I wasn't getting the kind of tone and feel I was used to. It sounded OK but it felt and sounded...I don't know...sterile or stiff is probably the best way I could describe it...at least compared to what I'm used to. Maybe too "mixed" is a better term. I felt that if I were playing in a band that used backing tracks or electronic beats live, or if I was playing with a pop singer who wanted everything to sound just like their recordings live, a FR/FR system would make more sense contextually.

For me, in a live band situation for the kind of music I most enjoy playing I find running the AxeFx with the cab sims off (I use the sims for direct recording) into a Matrix power amp and a pair of cabs with high powered guitar speakers (I like the combination of the Eminence Tonker and their EV clone) really gives me the sound and feel of my favorite amps. I've owned my AxeFx rig for about a year and a half now and I couldn't be happier with it. It's totally changed the way I create music in the best possible ways while retaining the things about the guitar in terms of tone and feel that I have always loved.

Anyway...which do you prefer and why? :)

Have you read through this thread?
 
Based on your description and assessment of FRFR tones I am guessing you were using a monitor designed for a pa? I would agree most regular pa type monitors using IR's is pretty sterile and not representative of how much better an FRFR rig can sound.

I was just at a buddy's studio Fri pm and he was running mesa powered 4x12 cabs and I had my Xitone/CLR stereo rig. Everyone agreed the real cabs had a much thinner tone and the sound dispersion is a no contest. Point the cabs directly at you for only place the 'sweet spot' exists, with the FRFR's everywhere in the room sounded killer!

The key is the IR that works for you. I gave up on FRFR years ago due to being overwhelmed by so many IR's to sample in packs I purchased. Most were not that great. When I returned to them I found some great IR's that take the Fractal tone a 3d place that for my ears does not exist in traditional cabs.
Take the time to find an IR that works then splurge on one (ideally 2) of the top 3 FRFR solutions which have been well documented here. I say that because you cannot make a correct judgment about the 2 without hearing quality IR's you like through monster stereo FRFR rigs.

Last caveat is I love Matrix power amps, but I think at some point you need to A/B it with a real tube power amp. I think it makes a big difference if you opt to stick with your real cabs.
 
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I am a recent Axe FX XL+ owner and I'm still finding my way, so to speak. I love the versatility of the Axe FX (amps, effects, cab sims, mics, etc). It's exactly what I've been missing playing through a tube head and accompanying 4x12. That being said, I had band rehearsal today and couldn't help but notice a lack of fullness and bottom end using factory presets that I'm pretty sure were using cab sims. I run XL+ Output 1 (L and R) into a Presonus 16.4.2 board, which then goes into two JBL PRX712 monitors with no bass dump. I assume that no sub contributes to the lack of fullness and bottom end. I've considered getting a XiTone or Atomic CLR but that would be just for me. What about what the audience? I just saw Brit Floyd last Saturday where both guitarists and the bassist were using Axe FX's and it sounded HUGE. At my age, I'd really like to ditch lugging around a 4x12. What am I doing wrong?
 
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I am a recent Axe FX XL+ owner and I'm still finding my way, so to speak. I love the versatility of the Axe FX (amps, effects, cab sims, mics, etc). It's exactly what I've been missing playing through a tube head and accompanying 4x12. That being said, I had band rehearsal today and couldn't help but notice a lack of fullness and bottom end using factory presets that I'm pretty sure were using cab sims. I run XL+ Output 1 (L and R) into a Presonus 16.4.2 board, which then goes into two JBL PRX712 monitors with no bass dump. I assume that no sub contributes to the lack of fullness and bottom end. I've considered getting a XiTone or Atomic CLR but that would be just for me. What about what the audience? I just saw Brit Floyd last Saturday where both guitarists and the bassist were using Axe FX's and it sounded HUGE. At my age, I'd really like to ditch lugging around a 4x12. What am I doing wrong?
tweak your presets at gig volume is the best advice I can give...and try to create your own from. Scratch
 
I'm a firm believer that purpose built FRFR is the shortest path to unleashing the potential of the Axe FX. I know it's tough to drop a lot of money on them but a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
 
I am a recent Axe FX XL+ owner and I'm still finding my way, so to speak. I love the versatility of the Axe FX (amps, effects, cab sims, mics, etc). It's exactly what I've been missing playing through a tube head and accompanying 4x12. That being said, I had band rehearsal today and couldn't help but notice a lack of fullness and bottom end using factory presets that I'm pretty sure were using cab sims. I run XL+ Output 1 (L and R) into a Presonus 16.4.2 board, which then goes into two JBL PRX712 monitors with no bass dump. I assume that no sub contributes to the lack of fullness and bottom end. I've considered getting a XiTone or Atomic CLR but that would be just for me. What about what the audience? I just saw Brit Floyd last Saturday where both guitarists and the bassist were using Axe FX's and it sounded HUGE. At my age, I'd really like to ditch lugging around a 4x12. What am I doing wrong?
How were you monitoring yourself? Are you just referring to the FOH sound? Also, I would highly suggest making your own presets from scratch. The factory ones may not work with your setup.
 
Well use what works for you... downside to using a real cabinet? it's one cabinet, most amps will sound the same coming out of it. Some of us with varied gigs, want different sounds at our fingertips. if you are a set it and blast it kind of guy, use a cab. Personally I have my rig dialed where it sounds like a cab to me. Played my last show with no cab or monitor at all, just IEMS. guess what.. sounded great, mix out front was clean. Different strokes, and I hate this term but it applies "horses for courses".
 
I was an FRFR guy. It's fine sending it to FOH...he can deal with the mix.
I go straight into the desk when doing a trio gig, for simplicity. But use my 212 cab. with the full band.
The FRFR through PA rigs has more high end that needs to be tamed with the right IR's and EQ (IMHO)
Ever used your vocal mic through a guitar cab?...think of the inverse of this.
 
I'm a firm believer that purpose built FRFR is the shortest path to unleashing the potential of the Axe FX. I know it's tough to drop a lot of money on them but a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
I have considered getting a XiTone or Atomic CLR. I have no problem dropping the coin on that. My main concern would be what the audience would hear at a gig. The FRFR would be for me only, correct?
 
How were you monitoring yourself? Are you just referring to the FOH sound? Also, I would highly suggest making your own presets from scratch. The factory ones may not work with your setup.
Yes, I was referring to the FOH sound. There just seemed to be no bottom end but there was no sub in the FOH PA system.
 
Well use what works for you... downside to using a real cabinet? it's one cabinet, most amps will sound the same coming out of it. Some of us with varied gigs, want different sounds at our fingertips. if you are a set it and blast it kind of guy, use a cab. Personally I have my rig dialed where it sounds like a cab to me. Played my last show with no cab or monitor at all, just IEMS. guess what.. sounded great, mix out front was clean. Different strokes, and I hate this term but it applies "horses for courses".
I'm such a newbie I don't think I even know what works for me yet! :) I really don't want to use a traditional guitar cabinet. I want to utilize the full versatility the Axe FX has to offer. That being said, our other guitarist uses a VHT Pitbull 50 halfstack and the difference in fullness between our tones was substantial.

I don't know if I agree that most amps will sound the same coming out of one cabinet. I would think a Diezel VH4 through a Recto 4x12 would sound vastly different than a Fender Bassman through the same cabinet. Also, don't the different FRFR cabinets sound a little different from each other? Don't the active XiTone 1x12 wedge, Atomic CLR, and Friedman ASM-12 have their own characteristics that make them unique even if those differences are subtle?
 
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