Cliff, Get rid of the older firmware modeling options to free up space!!

Older firmware modeling option

  • Remove it. I can live without it.

    Votes: 398 94.3%
  • Leave it. I have to have it.

    Votes: 24 5.7%

  • Total voters
    422
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Hopefully this is all over soon.
It's almost as bad as this. (Almost ;))

clinton-vs-trump-1.jpg
 
FWIW

modelling has many advantages

but there is 1 major downside. one day your beast of a unit will no longer be able to support the latest and greatest.

it is bad business to cut features from the current model to prolong the life of an old unit . I know it sucks but its the way it is .
 
Have to respectfully disagree with you on this one.

The rollback feature was not implemented to circumvent a problem. There was never any problem with the new modelling updates. A minority (according to the survey numbers) of the user base wanted the ability to easily rollback because they felt their presets sounded better with a previous version. That to me is not a problem, it just required an adjustment period. Which could have been accomplished by re-installing a previous firmware version.
This is very true with users who have a computer at hand (which should be about everybody), since basically with Fractal Bot it takes minutes to switch out a firmware and some patches.

So, even without two units side by side you can record your preset into your DAW, and load the new firmware and spectrum analyze or tinker with amp settings, etc. So yes, keep with the older firmware and if you find a way to duplicate your favorite patches into the new firmware, go for it when you succeed on a test basis. That problem is indeed solved by a user taking some time to learn how to match earlier presets, especially with helpful resources (maybe some nice support group like this forum - a lot of you guys are really great about this).

The other problem, what I call the "discrepancy", among users, is where a user simply never succeeds in effectively reproducing some of their patches, but also finds some that with the newer firmware are simply irreplaceable. Then they want to have both presets loaded in their preset banks at the same time.

But wait, isn't the existence of THAT second problem the RESULT of the workaround? It couldn't have existed as a reality in this universe, UNTIL the workaround was introduced, unless I'm missing something... So it is indeed more a feature than a workaround, but it was not the intended fundamental purpose that Cliff was working on - it was a great suggestion from the community - but I think its time has come and gone and it should be back to Cliff's intended purpose - which brings the whole functioning of the unit together, fortunately or unfortunately. That purpose being to explore the height of amp modelling towards the ideal of the real thing. No one is pleased with reality.

Is Rod Serling available for comment here?
 
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Also, consider me an idiot (please read disclaimer below) but I have an Axe II. But I'm not really sure what it is although I've had it for years now.

I'm pretty sure it's a Mark II. Since my Ultra was a Mark I, no?

So XL, and XL + are also Mark II. Or?

No disrespect to the new Axe FX Mark III, which will model Cliff so each of us can have a totally different Fractal Audio company inside the box.

Disclaimer - I am offensive and dull. I feel really stupid that I don't know when Fractal started using the term Mark II. After all, Wikipedia recently removed the references for the original Axe FX (which is now referred to as Mark I?), and they are the only source of valid information trusted by everyone of course. (Libraries used to contain hard copy, but we write so prolifically now, we are all each one of us smarter than libraries! Hell, we are so smart (except me?) we each can create our own Mark I and Mark II and Mark 74 if we want, of every item we design in our households. When I get smart enough I am going to invent a Mark II pillow, which is going to be better than ALL THE OTHER PILLOWS IN THE WORLD. It will be the world's first MARK II PILLOW)
 
Standard and Ultra are not Axe-Fx II's. Those are just Axe-Fx's.
Axe-Fx II Mark 1's doesn't say "Mark 1" on it, but says "G2 Modeling Technology" below the screen.
Axe-Fx II Mark 2's say "Mark II" below the screen.

XL says "Axe-Fx II XL" just above and to the right of the screen, above the Value knob.
XL+ says "Axe-Fx II XL+" just above and to the right of the screen, above the Value knob.
 
Damn, I'd hate to have to find out my AxeFX II isn't good enough for firmware updates. I thought if I wanted to stay up to date I wouldn't have to buy a new AxeFX until the 3 came out... Sounds like I was wrong.
 
(Mark II owner. I purchased my Axe FX II because the XL was released)

I gave my vote for removing the modeling version feature, because I personally never use it.

BUT

first I ignore totally what could be the real benefits for Mark II owner in terms of new firmware. I suppose that just the Fractal engineers know that.
Will it be then some more ROM for 1 more, 10, 50 firmwares????

second, I think that a firmware is not only modelling, but almost everytime also an addition of new features (amps, FX, ...). And that's the point for some of the XL / XL+ users. They want the butter (the modelling choice on existing amps) and the cake (the new amps and FX) at the same time.
I can personally understand that point just because the XL/XL+ can handle that.

I share and understand the mark II owner's position regarding the modelling option, but I will not be jealous or angry against XL/XL+ owner (and FRACTAL) if only them can upgrade new firmware in the future.

I personally will not purchase an XL / XL+ to keep on going upgrading.
If I can upgrade more, great !!
if not, I will keep using my Mark II the same way as I do it today.
 
...Being that I paid extra money for that extra memory in my XL+, it kinda is my right to expect additional features for my XL+ than you get with your MK I/II unit. I chose to pay more money for a higher end unit so I could get additional features such as more preset slots, more user ir slots, and at this point, continued firmware updates because my unit can handle the task.

Before I address the above statement I'll state that I am a Mk I owner who will be no less excited about my AxeFX II when the final firmware drops. I would still be as excited about my AxeFX II today if firmware development had ceased with v5.00, the release flashed to my new Mk I when it arrived on my doorstep in mid 2012. The front row seat to theongoing development has certainly been an amazing experience no doubt. But, just as was the case with my Ultra (which I purchased new just as it's final firmware, v11.0, was being released) my expectations extended no further than the firmware shipped with the AxeFX II. That is what was being sold and that is what I expected. Everything that has followed to this day has been free, and has been a blessing.

I voted my preference in this poll - that being the removal of the modeling version roll back feature if it will facilitate making available to Mk I & II users any significant development improvements by freeing up a little boot ROM. I also carefully voiced this preference, in the beta Q4.01 thread where topic started, making sure that it was understood that I'm quite happy either way, that I have no expectation that any such firmware modification be made, and that I am very grateful for all of Cliff's time and efforts to constantly improve the AxeFX II.

Now onto the quoted statement above. Had you purchased an XL (not an XL+) one might fairly assume by your statement that you bought it during the very brief time between the release of the XL and the depletion of stock of the then discontinued Mk II. Under such an assumption your choice to spend the extra money on the XL may have been for any number of reasons (have the most up to date version, for its advertised additional hardware features, for the additional preset an IR storage, all of the above?) but given what was known at the time - and up until just a couple of days ago - you would not have spent more on the XL with any expectations of receiving ongoing firmware development updates for a longer period of time than would have been the case had you instead chose to purchase a Mk II. Before the start of this week no one outside of FAS was aware of the difference in boot ROM size between the Mk I/II units and the XL/XL+ units.

Since, though, you purchased (what I assume was) a new XL+ you didn't 'spend more' than did a Mk II owner did as a choice, you simply paid the then current price for the AxeFX model that was the current model at the time of purchase. If you happened to have purchased your XL+ used then you did indeed have a choice (pay less for a Mk I/II or more for an XL/XL+ based on whatever preferences drove your decision). Once again, receiving updates for longer than would a Mk II owner would not have been a consideration because, until just a couple of days ago, Cliff had stated that the Mk and XL series units would continue to be developed in parallel with no indication ever made that the boot ROM of these two series differed in any way whatsoever. If you did purchase used then any expectations that you may have had of receiving anything whatsoever beyond the hardware and the then current firmware would be on you and FAS would have / would owe you nothing as your purchase would not have benefitted FAS in any way. The original owner is the only owner whose purchase benefitted FAS. Everything a second hand owner receives from FAS for free should be considered a blessing.

The above is all but moot though as FAS has never been under any obligation to provide even just one free firmware update, never mind ongoing free updates, free new features, ever improving modeling, effects, and features. We are simply fortunate that Cliff chosen to provide free, regular updates to ALL AxeFX II users.

Your assertion that because you 'paid extra money for that extra memory in your XL+', that it kinda is your 'right to expect additional features' for your XL+ than others get with their 'MK I/II' units is ridiculous for the reasons stated above. While it may be your right to 'expect additional features' for your XL+ it most certainly does not mean that you actually have a right to have 'additional features'. You actually only have a right to receive whatever it is you paid for - that being an XL+, its power cord, the owners manual (if a hard copy is still shipping with the AxeFX), the current firmware at the time of purchase, and the packaging in which your AxeFX shipped. Similarly, with the purchase of a used AxeFX II you would only have the right to receive whatever the seller states is included with the unit, including whatever firmware the seller states is installed. Anything else you receive is compliments of FAS, a gift - not a right.

IMO your assertion as quoted above wreaks of entitlement and it's not doing you any favors. Cliff very well may decide to leave things as they are and cease to provide firmware updates for Mk I & II units when the boot ROM has no space left for new code. Then again he might choose to remove the earlier firmware version feature from the common firmware releases to extend development for the Mk I/II units for as long as the reclaimed space allows. That's entirely up to Cliff. I can only assume that your input on the subject would be worth more consideration if you were not asserting your entitlement to free access to Cliff's ongoing development of the AxeFX II's firmware.

I hope this will be taken as intended - as simply food for thought. I certainly do not mean to offend and I apologize if I have done so.

Have a great night!
 
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i've never used the firmware rollback option myself and would hate for an unused feature to prevent the pleasure of regular updates in the future.
 
Now onto the quoted statement above. Had you purchased an XL (not an XL+) one might fairly assume by your statement that you bought it during the very brief time between the release of the XL and the depletion of stock of the then discontinued Mk II. Under such an assumption your choice to spend the extra money on the XL may have been for any number of reasons (have the most up to date version, for its advertised additional hardware features, for the additional preset an IR storage, all of the above?) but given what was known at the time - and up until just a couple of days ago - you would not have spent more on the XL with any expectations of receiving ongoing firmware development updates for a longer period of time than would have been the case had you instead chose to purchase a Mk II. Before the start of this week no one outside of FAS was aware of the difference in boot ROM size between the Mk I/II units and the XL/XL+ units.

Since, though, you purchased (what I assume was) a new XL+ you didn't 'spend more' than did a Mk II owner did as a choice, you simply paid the then current price for the AxeFX model that was the current model at the time of purchase. If you happened to have purchased your XL+ used then you did indeed have a choice (pay less for a Mk I/II or more for an XL/XL+ based on whatever preferences drove your decision). Once again, receiving updates for longer than would a Mk II owner would not have been a consideration because, until just a couple of days ago, Cliff had stated that the Mk and XL series units would continue to be developed in parallel with no indication ever made that the boot ROM of these two series differed in any way whatsoever. If you did purchase used then any expectations that you may have had of receiving anything whatsoever beyond the hardware and the then current firmware would be on you and FAS would have / would owe you nothing as your purchase would not have benefitted FAS in any way. The original owner is the only owner whose purchase benefitted FAS. Everything a second hand owner receives from FAS for free should be considered a blessing.

The above is all but moot though as FAS has never been under any obligation to provide even just one free firmware update, never mind ongoing fire updates, free new features, ever improving modeling, effects, and features. We are simply fortunate that Cliff chosen to provide free, regular updates to ALL AxeFX II users.

Your assertion that because you 'paid extra money for that extra memory in your XL+', that it kinda is your 'right to expect additional features' for your XL+ than others get with their 'MK I/II' units is ridiculous for the reasons stated above. While it may be your right to 'expect additional features' for your XL+ it most certainly mean that you actually have a right to have 'additional features'. You actually only have a right to receive whatever it is you paid for - that being an XL+, its power cord, the owners manual (if a hard copy is still shipping with the AxeFX), the current firmware at the time of purchase, and the packaging in which your AxeFX shipped. Similarly, with the purchase of a used AxeFX II you would only have the right to receive whatever the seller states is included with the unit, including whatever firmware the seller states is installed. Anything else you receive is compliments of FAS, a gift - not a right.

IMO your assertion as quoted above wreaks of entitlement and it's not doing you any favors. Cliff very well may decide to leave things as they are and cease to provide firmware updates for Mk I & II units when the boot ROM has no space left for new code. The again he might choose to remove the earlier firmware version support from the common firmware releases to extend development for the Mk I/II units for as long as the reclaimed space allows. That's entirely up to Cliff. I can only assume that your input on the subject would be worth more consideration if you were not asserting your entitlement to free access to Cliff's ongoing development of the AxeFX II's firmware.

I hope this will be taken as intended - as simply food for thought. I certainly do not mean to offend and I apologize if I have done so.

Have a great night!
Edited: Ok so I decided to remove the entire post I had just written up because I realize that in the context of a thread this big, I can't expect that you read the conversation that quote was taken from in whole. Things are going to be read completely out of context of an entire back and forth conversation, and only be taken for that one specific comment, which they were.

I will just leave it at this; I feel entitled to nothing more than what I purchased. And MK I/II owners should feel the same. You own an old unit, don't expect, which some MK I/II users are, for owners of a unit with enough memory to move forward, to have things removed from their units just to "make it work" on your old units. Removal of features for advancement purposes, to make room for something new, is one thing, but removal just to make an old unit keep up is just ludicrous.

There are probably more Axe FX users than not, who never venture off the main amp tab, but does that mean we should remove all the advanced parameters? hell that would probably make alot of room. If you had a poll that truly reflected the FULL Axe FX user base I have no doubt that the amount of users who only use the main tab would greatly out number the amount of users who use the advanced tabs. But it would still make no sense to remove those tabs and features because that's a step backward.
 
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Before I address the above statement I'll state that I am a Mk I owner who will be no less excited about my AxeFX II when the final firmware drops. I would still be as excited about my AxeFX II today if firmware development had ceased with v5.00, the release flashed to my new Mk I when it arrived on my doorstep in mid 2012. The front row seat to theongoing development has certainly been an amazing experience no doubt. But, just as was the case with my Ultra (which I purchased new just as it's final firmware, v11.0, was being released) my expectations extended no further than the firmware shipped with the AxeFX II. That is what was being sold and that is what I expected. Everything that has followed to this day has been free, and has been a blessing.

I voted my preference in this poll - that being the removal of the modeling version roll back feature if it will facilitate making available to Mk I & II users any significant development improvements by freeing up a little boot ROM. I also carefully voiced this preference, in the beta Q4.01 thread where topic started, making sure that it was understood that I'm quite happy either way, that I have no expectation that any such firmware modification be made, and that I am very grateful for all of Cliff's time and efforts to constantly improve the AxeFX II.

Now onto the quoted statement above. Had you purchased an XL (not an XL+) one might fairly assume by your statement that you bought it during the very brief time between the release of the XL and the depletion of stock of the then discontinued Mk II. Under such an assumption your choice to spend the extra money on the XL may have been for any number of reasons (have the most up to date version, for its advertised additional hardware features, for the additional preset an IR storage, all of the above?) but given what was known at the time - and up until just a couple of days ago - you would not have spent more on the XL with any expectations of receiving ongoing firmware development updates for a longer period of time than would have been the case had you instead chose to purchase a Mk II. Before the start of this week no one outside of FAS was aware of the difference in boot ROM size between the Mk I/II units and the XL/XL+ units.

Since, though, you purchased (what I assume was) a new XL+ you didn't 'spend more' than did a Mk II owner did as a choice, you simply paid the then current price for the AxeFX model that was the current model at the time of purchase. If you happened to have purchased your XL+ used then you did indeed have a choice (pay less for a Mk I/II or more for an XL/XL+ based on whatever preferences drove your decision). Once again, receiving updates for longer than would a Mk II owner would not have been a consideration because, until just a couple of days ago, Cliff had stated that the Mk and XL series units would continue to be developed in parallel with no indication ever made that the boot ROM of these two series differed in any way whatsoever. If you did purchase used then any expectations that you may have had of receiving anything whatsoever beyond the hardware and the then current firmware would be on you and FAS would have / would owe you nothing as your purchase would not have benefitted FAS in any way. The original owner is the only owner whose purchase benefitted FAS. Everything a second hand owner receives from FAS for free should be considered a blessing.

The above is all but moot though as FAS has never been under any obligation to provide even just one free firmware update, never mind ongoing fire updates, free new features, ever improving modeling, effects, and features. We are simply fortunate that Cliff chosen to provide free, regular updates to ALL AxeFX II users.

Your assertion that because you 'paid extra money for that extra memory in your XL+', that it kinda is your 'right to expect additional features' for your XL+ than others get with their 'MK I/II' units is ridiculous for the reasons stated above. While it may be your right to 'expect additional features' for your XL+ it most certainly mean that you actually have a right to have 'additional features'. You actually only have a right to receive whatever it is you paid for - that being an XL+, its power cord, the owners manual (if a hard copy is still shipping with the AxeFX), the current firmware at the time of purchase, and the packaging in which your AxeFX shipped. Similarly, with the purchase of a used AxeFX II you would only have the right to receive whatever the seller states is included with the unit, including whatever firmware the seller states is installed. Anything else you receive is compliments of FAS, a gift - not a right.

IMO your assertion as quoted above wreaks of entitlement and it's not doing you any favors. Cliff very well may decide to leave things as they are and cease to provide firmware updates for Mk I & II units when the boot ROM has no space left for new code. The again he might choose to remove the earlier firmware version support from the common firmware releases to extend development for the Mk I/II units for as long as the reclaimed space allows. That's entirely up to Cliff. I can only assume that your input on the subject would be worth more consideration if you were not asserting your entitlement to free access to Cliff's ongoing development of the AxeFX II's firmware.

I hope this will be taken as intended - as simply food for thought. I certainly do not mean to offend and I apologize if I have done so.

Have a great night!
Spot on sir!
 
In reality, it´s very simple to understand.


Some people are saying:

- Axe fx Standard and Axe Fx Ultra had the same amount of firmwares, so:

- Axe Fx II and all their versions should have the same treatment (not "must", but "should").

- We´ve never have any difference between any Axe II in terms of firmware. We accept the other issues, like more presets, or more using blocks, but we assume that firmwares they are gonna be the same. And as "firmware" we mean the same "algorithms to make the sounds", besides new amps.

And finally, these people are asking if it´s possible to continue with that.



Other people are saying:

- Axe Fx II Mark I/II versions vs Axe Fx II XL/XL+ versions are completally different, so:

- We don´t want to lose any feature from firmwares becouse other models.

- If you want to get all firmwares, buy the product we have.


So, the question is: are they different versions of the same product?, or are they different products?

I think that´s it.


Best regards to all.
 
My 2 cents. For many years I bought gear from Roland and spent a lot of money for the newest and greatest but was lucky to get maybe 1 update and that's it. If Fractal never did another update to my AXE FX again I would still be more than happy with it. As it is, this is the closest
to perfect processor I have ever played through and if I live to 100 will never use everything that is in it. I have only had my new AXE for 3 months and I hope something newer and better doesn't come out within a year or so but if it does I will likely buy it.
 
Mark 1 user here (after upgrading from Ultra when the II first came out) - completely happy with my box and know I still have years of discovery and joy with what I currently have - and many thanks to Cliff and team for all their efforts to provide the absolute best experience in my many years of playing guitar.

My sound is excellent - can play on for years without another update.

BUT - I don't know that I can be satisfied not being part of the journey yet to come; new epiphanies, exciting developments, improved blocks, faster scene changes, etc. If I must upgrade to XL to be a part of that adventure so be it - I'll be saving my pennies because it will happen someday, I would just like for it to not be today! It's my fault that I'm not ready.

I know Cliff said it would be a ton of coding to maintain a Mark code development separate from an XL code development (like the proposed change to free up ROM), but to extend life I wonder if an option for Mark I/II code update to be purchased would make it worthwhile to FAS. I imagine it would be a headache for Cliff and Co, but if that would give me more updates/longevity for my Mark I I'd gladly pay for it.

Could be a new revenue stream for FAS. They deserve some of my money anyway for all of the free updates. Spoken from 8 years of enjoying Fractal products.
 
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