Stock vs commercial IR

GiRas

GiRas

New Member
Hey all!!

Still a bit of a newbie to all this wonderful fractal stuff....
Trying to get my head around all the stock IR´s and the immense amount of commercial IR´s out there
To the point:
how big of a difference is there between stock and commercial IR´s?

My thinking being, if Fractal is making such accurate copies of all those amps, surely the cab IR´s won´t be too far off either..... right?
Are the commercial IR´s that much better to spend the extra money on them?
 
They are all just tolls and flavors. The IR game has changed so much. Back when fractal first started they use a neutral mic and many people added mic sims (many factory cabs were shot with the neutral mic) Fas eventually moved to focus in on backing in the mics in to the IR then the topic of power amp coloration started popping up. Fas now uses a technique where they can extract power amp color ML labs makes IRs and uses their own methods to extract power amp color. Company's like OH allow power amp coloring as part of their IR pallet. In the end every IR is Unique. Every speaker and can even though are the same model and type will sound different. Also commercial IR can have cabs no in the Fas unit already. With all that said I have never used a commercial IR. I will eventually get the new Fas cab pack with the boogie 2x12 but that is because I loved that cab in real life.
 
It's a rabbit hole.

I've been around here for 3 years, and in that time they've released like 18 cab packs lol... not only does it add up $$$ but each pack contains hundreds of IR's, with each one having it's own unique qualities.... then there comes mixing them..... it's really endless.

Anyways, this is just my own humble opinion, But I think my money was better spent renting a bunch of quality mic's and shooting my own cabs, or if you don't have a cab but know what you like, rent one too. I've tried thousands of IR's but I always end up using the ones I made myself, as they are from my actual cabinet after all, and really do capture that for me.

as always,
YMMV
 
Cab packs are all about nuanced variations. The stock cabs all sound great and give you an idea of what's available. Once you know the types of cabs you like then you can drill down and explore all the subtle and not-so-subtle variations of that type.

I picked up my first cab packs (#20 and #14) and I'm in heaven. Tons of amazing tones to choose from and cheap too when you consider the cost per IRs (4-8 cents each) and the mixes are very cool.
 
GiRas said:
Hey all!!

Still a bit of a newbie to all this wonderful fractal stuff....
Trying to get my head around all the stock IR´s and the immense amount of commercial IR´s out there
To the point:
how big of a difference is there between stock and commercial IR´s?

My thinking being, if Fractal is making such accurate copies of all those amps, surely the cab IR´s won´t be too far off either..... right?
Are the commercial IR´s that much better to spend the extra money on them?
Click to expand...

I was asking myself the exact same question a few weeks ago and decided to take the plunge and bought cab pack #14. After going through them, I can't say that they are leaps and bounds past the factory cabs. Some of them sound a little warmer maybe but, as has already been said, it really comes down to your own tastes which is the worst possible answer to hear when you asking the kind of question you are asking, lol. Do you spend the cash or don't you? The only way to know is to get one and see if you like them or not. Thank god at $30 a pop there is minimal risk.
 
I have almost all Cab Packs from all ir makers and it gives me choice to finetune the tone. They are really great stock ir's, but when I first bought from Ownhammer a Cab Pack years ago, it was realy a different world suddenly to the Axe. I use since then 99.9% of the time commercial ir's. Look it this way: Fas does the best modelling on earth and the ir's i see it like, they are guys who only make the best possible Picks, Cables, Cases, strings - so it's well spend money in my opinion. Just try one pack and you probably will realise that there is more to it. it all adds up to your sound - you'll love it.
 
Some of the Stock IR´s are very old and done with older technic - redwirez for example. I think they sound to bassy, no open sounding.

It´s not about the ultrarez thing - there also High Res IR´s, which sound very good - a god IR is a god IR - if it has got they right sweet spot.

Some of the newer IR´s are done with the M160 Mic - which sound very fat - to fat to my ears. It depends on your taste!

There also Cabs not in the Axe, which you can buy from another like Ownhammer, CabIR and TAF.

some soundexample sound very good from cabpacks, but they don´t work with your style - also happened to me.

try it (only a few coins) and you will hear the difference.
 
This is actually a really good question..

What all the guys above have responded with is right from my point of view.. At the end of the day it comes down to two things in my opinion..

1. What speaker/cab/wedge you're playing it back through..
2. Will it cut through in the mix, AND, will you cut through in a band environment..

Personally, from my point of view, nothing else matters really.. Some IRs will sound better certain amps; then those same Irs will sound 'different' with a different amp. Horses for courses mate.
 
GiRas said:
Trying to get my head around all the stock IR´s and the immense amount of commercial IR´s out there
To the point:
how big of a difference is there between stock and commercial IR´s?
Click to expand...

There are several stock IRs that are actually commercial IRs. So if you wanted a taste of some of OwnHammer or ML's stuff, it's there. You can spot them because they have parentheses after the IR name (for example, F055 4x12 Pre-Rola 75 M160 (ML)). (Also worth noting is that in Axe-Edit, IRs in italics are Hi-/Ultra-Res.)

It also might be worth searching the forums since there are several free IRs that have been released. Also OwnHammer has a great free sampler of the Mesa Standard 4x12.

As others have said, it's a rabbit hole whose costs can add up quickly. I would suggest sticking with the stock IRs for a while until you figure out what you like (mics, speakers, etc.). IRs do make a major impact on the sound, so it's worth experimenting with.

I'd also suggest adjusting some of the advanced parameters -- like changing the mic type to "Null" and messing with proximity or adjusting the room level. Or keep it simple and don't even bother with touching that stuff. Whatever works for you.
 
I like having the ability to choose and 'play' when recording, especially with CabLab too. But I realised quite recently that the majority of my for 'live' sounds are stock cabs.
 
I have tons of commercial IR's and use mostly stock, though again some of those are from commercial packs. I still end up finding my sound with tweaking , THOUGH, the right IR may get u there faster.
 
One of the advantages of a modeler like the Fractal is to be able to try new stuff without having to buy / ship / sell / ship big bulky items like amp heads and guitar cabs.

I like to experiment and try stuff.

I am the first to admit, out of hundreds of choices, I find one-three I really like. I get tired of auditioning sometimes too.
 
Thanks for the responses
Interesting stuff!
Might have a closer look at the possibilities with commercial IR's!

Just don't want to get lost in all this technical stuff and forget about playing the guitar! :)
 
Matt_B_77 said:
Cab packs are all about nuanced variations. The stock cabs all sound great and give you an idea of what's available. Once you know the types of cabs you like then you can drill down and explore all the subtle and not-so-subtle variations of that type.

I picked up my first cab packs (#20 and #14) and I'm in heaven. Tons of amazing tones to choose from and cheap too when you consider the cost per IRs (4-8 cents each) and the mixes are very cool.
Click to expand...
I have been thinking about buying one of these (14,20), would you recommend one over the other ? The stock ones I use the most, are based on greenbacks.
 
Shooting IR's is not at all the same as modeling an amplifier so I wouldn't compare the two. There's only one way to model an amplifier since it's a line level signal where shooting IR's is about microphone placement and obviously you can place a microphone in a million different positions.

As far as the IR shoot technique is concerned they are similar. Getting a clean representation of the cabinet without any color from gear that you wouldn't normally use with a guitar cabinet is a key element in making high quality premium IR's. That's the level where FAS/ML IR's are now. It's been on that level for a little bit over a year so every pack since then is extremely high quality.

That being said making good IR's is not just about the shoot technique. The cabinet itself is obviously very important. Even if you get a Mesa 4x12 cabinet there are good and bad ones out there so finding a good one with the right specs etc. is luck and chance. After that it's about how you place the mics and that is something that takes years of practice. In my case I've been doing this for about 10 years now and I still feel like I learn more after every IR shoot session.

Cab Packs are ridiculously cheap products since they change your tone way more than any stomp box pedal you'd spend 5 times the money on. It's not a huge leap to make if you ask me. Start with something small to find out if you're into the IR thing. The power you have over your sound switching IR's is so much more than any amp setting will ever have.
 
I haven't been a user nearly as long as most of the others responding here, but I can say that I spent about two weeks with the Axe Fx II using only the stock cabs and was satisfied. A few demos of some of Mikko's cabs came out that really caught my ear and I took the plunge. I have been extremely satisfied with everything I have purchased shot by Mikko as well as the Ownhammer stuff I have. I am not saying that they are BETTER than the stock IRs, but I find it way easier to find the tones I am looking for with their IRs over most of the stock ones.
 
If I were buying my first commercial IR and was scared of the rabbit hole it would def be something from Mikko. Why? He has the ace folder. It is ready mixed cab combos that sound good. The rabbit hole is in the auditioning. Subtle changes in mic postion between IRs, then all those positions get repeated for each mic and each speaker. That is why a person can get lost and have ear fatigue. It is like being in a studio to record and take all the time in the world to mic the cab just right to capture the magic. Ace's are like pre manufactured magic (from what I hear)
 
brokenvail said:
If I were buying my first commercial IR and was scared of the rabbit hole it would def be something from Mikko. Why? He has the ace folder. It is ready mixed cab combos that sound good. The rabbit hole is in the auditioning. Subtle changes in mic postion between IRs, then all those positions get repeated for each mic and each speaker. That is why a person can get lost and have ear fatigue. It is like being in a studio to record and take all the time in the world to mic the cab just right to capture the magic. Ace's are like pre manufactured magic (from what I hear)
Click to expand...

I second this. I have two ML cabpacks and honestly have never even tried anything other than whats in the Ace Folders in each. To me the cost alone is justified by the Ace's folder.
 
Tubiflex said:
I have been thinking about buying one of these (14,20), would you recommend one over the other ? The stock ones I use the most, are based on greenbacks
Click to expand...
I have both Cab Packs and I think both of them are Greenbacks and they sound really good in their own way, but they do sound different. You can't compare for better or worse as they both sound different but good. I'm glad I've got both of them and sometimes they are good if you mixe them.
 
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