are they scared who knows

I would find it... ironic... if the manufactures in question are themselves basically just cloning and tweaking existing circuits... eg. modified Marshall circuits....
 
I'm not referring to the sound but the fact they're actually copying the circuits in the digital realm. One things for sure, as modeling continues to progress amp designers/manufactures will be keeping a close eye on how they're doing it. All it's gonna take is a few ambitious lawyers.
 
barhrecords said:
For everyone that thinks there is "no doubt" modeling is wrecking amp maker's business, what substantiates that?
Click to expand...

I would say there is probably SOME truth to it... software modellers for DAWs, PODs for quiet home rehearsal and AxeFX/Kemper for studios/live... I mean SOME of those sales would've been amps if modelling tech didn't exist...

I think the hard thing to know is how many MORE amps are being sold as a RESULT of modelling...

This is probably an impossible thing to really gauge, the net impact.
 
TRTTRTTRT said:
I would say there is probably SOME truth to it... software modellers for DAWs, PODs for quiet home rehearsal and AxeFX/Kemper for studios/live... I mean SOME of those sales would've been amps if modelling tech didn't exist...

I think the hard thing to know is how many MORE amps are being sold as a RESULT of modelling...

This is probably an impossible thing to really gauge, the net impact.
Click to expand...

This is one of those "common sense" statements, "modeling is hurting amp sales", but unless someone that sells amps chimes in, I'm skeptical. Just because it seems like it would doesn't mean it actually is.

Who really has numbers to back this statement up?
 
brianv4 said:
I'm not referring to the sound but the fact they're actually copying the circuits in the digital realm. One things for sure, as modeling continues to progress amp designers/manufactures will be keeping a close eye on how they're doing it. All it's gonna take is a few ambitious lawyers.
Click to expand...

Well... they can't sue over a circuit... that's never gonna float... logos and other trademarked things MAYBE there's someone stupid enough to try and make the case, but... even then... Fargen would be in a lot of trouble for example, if you can't make a rectangular black box that sounds very similar to a marshall...
 
barhrecords said:
This is one of those "common sense" statements, "modeling is hurting amp sales", but unless someone that sells amps chimes in, I'm skeptical. Just because it seems like it would doesn't mean it actually is.

Who really has numbers to back this statement up?
Click to expand...

Agreed... I think you can probably find ALLL sorts of evidence, but compiling it and reaching a conclusion of the ultimate cost/benefit to the industry in general is probably impossible... especially as SOME companies might benefit and others might suffer...

Is Suhr selling 5% more and Fender selling 10% less... it's probably unknowable...
 
Ultra-Marvin said:
Of course tube amps won't die out, they're an integral part of guitar history. It's like saying you wouldn't buy a real Monet, if you could afford one, because you can get a really good print. I can see market share narrowing but never dieing out.
Click to expand...

The great irony: though I intend to purchase several of the amps modeled within the AxeFx (Dirty Shirley, Quick Rod, Tucana, Mark V:25, Atma and 3+SE preamp- yes those particular Boogie and Bogner amps are not actually modeled in the AxeFx, yet the companies are well represented nonetheless), I doubt that these will be used, more likely to be entombed within a layer of dust along with my existing tube amps (which, hard facts notwithstanding, I will not separate myself from).

Under ideal conditions, the sounds produced by tube amplification are comparable to those handily obtained from the AxeFx platform- unfortunately, tube amps are not nearly as conveniently utilized for recording or live scenarios...

Adapt or Die, such is the way of the world.
 
The tide of sales between modelers/profilers and analog amps will continue to wax and wane, but I think the shift toward software (Kemper/Axe/VSTs) will ultimately continue just like the progression toward digital that we've seen in the photography industry. Yes, film has seen a resurgence and new companies have actually STARTED producing film stock again. And by "resurgence", I mean 1 or 2 percentage point increases.

They'll never die, but analog amps will ultimately fall into that same category.
 
Tube Amps are safe for now. When modelers get the "amp in the room" sound/feel, that's when amp manufactures will feel it. If FAS created something like Line 6's DT amp series, I think that would be game changer in the world of amps.
 
Joe.Buerger said:
Tube Amps are safe for now. When modelers get the "amp in the room" sound/feel, that's when amp manufactures will feel it. If FAS created something like Line 6's DT amp series, I think that would be game changer in the world of amps.
Click to expand...

SOOO true. I was soooo close to going for the AFX2, but instead went for the FX8, because the whole FRFR thing was just too much of a change for my comfort live. I am considering a gradual transition with an AX8 though, but... what I really want is something as intuitive as pedals and amps, but as creative and vast the AFX2.

If such a thing exists at some point I'll be first in line.
 
"...if the modelling devices become so cheap and so good that they then force the analogue guys out of business, who the hell are the modellers going to model?"

No one, we start making our own virtual amps like the FAS Hot Rod, for example (and FAS Modern I/II/II, etc., etc.). You don't need physical tubes and other parts to design a virtual amp. I designed FAS Hot Rod in an afternoon. It would have taken months to do that with a 'real' amp. Voicing a virtual amp can be done in a tiny fraction of the time whereas voicing a real amp requires changing parts in and out ad nauseum.
 
FractalAudio said:
"...if the modelling devices become so cheap and so good that they then force the analogue guys out of business, who the hell are the modellers going to model?"

No one, we start making our own virtual amps like the FAS Hot Rod, for example (and FAS Modern I/II/II, etc., etc.). You don't need physical tubes and other parts to design a virtual amp. I designed FAS Hot Rod in an afternoon. It would have taken months to do that with a 'real' amp. Voicing a virtual amp can be done in a tiny fraction of the time whereas voicing a real amp requires changing parts in and out ad nauseum.
Click to expand...
Hi Cliff I'm new here, I'm on the waiting list for the AX8. Totally out of curiosity...did you build tube amps before getting into DSP engineering? If so what kind of circuits did you like making? I finally got rid of all the kooky family and now I am relaxing and reading about gear.
 
FractalAudio said:
"...if the modelling devices become so cheap and so good that they then force the analogue guys out of business, who the hell are the modellers going to model?"

No one, we start making our own virtual amps like the FAS Hot Rod, for example (and FAS Modern I/II/II, etc., etc.). You don't need physical tubes and other parts to design a virtual amp. I designed FAS Hot Rod in an afternoon. It would have taken months to do that with a 'real' amp. Voicing a virtual amp can be done in a tiny fraction of the time whereas voicing a real amp requires changing parts in and out ad nauseum.
Click to expand...
This is it, in a nutshell. If it's no longer a question of sound quality, then it's just an attachment to the old tech. That fades with the generation that holds the attachment. Time will tell, but it's a familiar cycle.
 
maybe one day Fractal will release a guitar amp with selectable Chanel form there own designe into a solid state frfr box with basic controle and selectable IR. that would work.
 
FractalAudio said:
"...if the modelling devices become so cheap and so good that they then force the analogue guys out of business, who the hell are the modellers going to model?"

No one, we start making our own virtual amps like the FAS Hot Rod, for example (and FAS Modern I/II/II, etc., etc.). You don't need physical tubes and other parts to design a virtual amp. I designed FAS Hot Rod in an afternoon. It would have taken months to do that with a 'real' amp. Voicing a virtual amp can be done in a tiny fraction of the time whereas voicing a real amp requires changing parts in and out ad nauseum.
Click to expand...

Cliff, will you let us design our own virtual amp one day ? Is it what you called the "User amp models" some months ago ?
It would be absolutely terrific.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom