Additional Out To A Half Stack Amp?

E

EVHalen

Inspired
My band's leader insists that I have a 4x12 cab running onstage when we gig (He likes feeling the punch of a real cab). He also thinks it would sound better for the audience members that stand close to the stage and aren't in the direct path of the FOH. I tried using my powered FRFR, but he doesn't like that either.

I typically just run direct into the mixing board with the Axe-Fx's cab & power amp simulations on, and use the venue's monitors for all my stage volume. Without changing any of my presets, would it sound weird to take one of the Axe-Fx's outputs and plug it into the FX return of a Marshall half stack? I know it would be like going through a power amp and cabinet twice, but does it still sound good?

My presets are too complicated to use the FX loop block before the cab block. I have WAY too many post-cab effects for that to work correctly (delays, reverbs, filter solo boost, chorus, flanger, etc).
 
Either convince the Dear Leader to live with it or hope for a quick release of the Friedman FRFR.
 
Any other ideas? This is kind of an emergency situation where I need to figure out what to do by the end of today.
 
There are a couple of FRFR cabs available. Expensive, though.

If you want to use a regular 4x12 onstage in addition to direct FRFR sound for the PA, just use the FXL block in parallel to your CAB block. Then use output 2 for your poweramp + cabinet.

Note that this means that all your post-amp effects should be placed between your AMP and CAB/FXL block. Also note that this means that your onstage-sound will have both poweramp modelling AND the real poweramp. This is something you have to live with in this setup unless you use a solid-state poweramp.
 
Tell him the truth - This is far too complex of a problem to solve in one day.

You could ask the FOH for a guitar only feed from the board and plug THAT into the Marshall FX return. Tell the sound guy he can have total control over the amp volume, might score you a few points.
 
EVHalen said:
I have WAY too many post-cab effects for that to work correctly (delays, reverbs, filter solo boost, chorus, flanger, etc).
Click to expand...

What do you feel would work incorrectly with this approach? It's pretty much the only way to get cab and no-cab signals that share effects without duplicating the effect chain. (One exception would be cab/no-cab as L/R through full-stereo effects only, getting mono cab/no-cab effected signals as final L/R output.)

If you've used all 12 columns it's possible to branch to the FXL block in the same column as the cab block, even if it's in column 12. (Turn down FXL mix page output level to just about silence it, or set FXL balance and its Output block row balance oppositely to completely silence it.)

With the "move column" feature (front panel or Axe-Edit) this could take as little as 5-10 seconds per preset. Move the column w/ cab block to the right, add FXL block. If your routing used multiple rows and diagonal connections after cab, some probably got altered and will require a few more seconds to recreate.
 
put your cab at the end out 1 poweramp Sims ON, Amp sims ON==Y split off the FX loop next to last out 2 to poweramp to cab...poweramp sims ON, cab sims OFF on OUT 2

the output at the very end is for OUT 1 level, output level for OUT 2 is the FX Block level

my FX delay,reverb chours flange all come before the cab, they sound great! and im coming from a wet dry wet system

I boost my solos in scenes with the very last output for out 1, the fx loop for out 2,,,you can have a different level for eack scene
 
Last edited:
EVHalen said:
My band's leader insists that I have a 4x12 cab running onstage when we gig (He likes feeling the punch of a real cab). He also thinks it would sound better for the audience members that stand close to the stage and aren't in the direct path of the FOH. I tried using my powered FRFR, but he doesn't like that either.
Click to expand...

First off, I'm a pretty picky guy when it comes to my guitar tone, so already don't like the one you call "my band's leader" he sound like a real nice guy to work with.

Second, what works for you? If it works for you the way it is, and he still insists, then just send him what he THINKS he wants in such a way that it doesn't affect what you need to hear on stage.

Personally, I'd just get an A/B/Y pedal, and split it before the Axe, and let him deal with the amp. I'd send then direct signal to the board, as per usual, no mic on the amp, and see if that makes him happy. If not, then he's just trying to make your life complicated for no reason.

I don't know why some people aren't happy unless they make other people's lives complicated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BrainalLeakage said:
I don't know why some people aren't happy unless they make other people's lives complicated.
Click to expand...

Some people are control freaks. There's their way, and there's the wrong way. Best way to deal with them is to listen to find if their ideas have any merit, and if not, just walk away.
 
Cagey said:
Some people are control freaks. There's their way, and there's the wrong way. Best way to deal with them is to listen to find if their ideas have any merit, and if not, just walk away.
Click to expand...
This is the best advice I've read on any forum so far. This happens a lot where I work...

I would agree with putting the effects before the power amp block. I also would agree with splitting the end of the effects signal to feed FOH and the amp.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
 
Just put a 4x12 cabinet on the stage. He didn't say you had to plug into it... the devils in the details.

Problem solved.

Besides, seems to be the norm now a days. It's not like this is anything new...

Black-Veil-Brides-fake-cabs.jpg

500x_fake-amp-stacks-immortal-metal-band.jpg
 
Just keep telling the leader that you're "working on a solution". Eventually he may give up or forget about it. [emoji123]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
why not just take an additional 1/4" out, plug it into mr band leaders amp+cab, and have the cable be long enough the he can put it where he likes. I believe Warren Haynes has a similar setup for his drummer.

You can let him have his own steering wheel, without letting him drive the car.
 
UPDATE: So I managed to play the show without using a cab, but the band's leader noticed and is now requiring me to use one. So in the future, I figure I'll take Output 2 (which is "Echoing" Output 1) into the effects loop RETURN of the venue's half stack amp, and run into the cab that way. My dilemma (as you've probably guessed): I want to keep cab and power amp modeling ON for Output 1, which I will send direct to FOH. But I want Output 2 to have cab and power amp modeling OFF.

Right now, without having that option available, I've whipped up an awful looking (and sounding) smiley face EQ curve on the Global EQ for Output 2 to try and compensate for the fact that I'm going through a cabinet twice (IR and a 4x12 cab onstage). But it's not a true solution, and I still can't do anything about my signal going through a "power amp" twice (Axe's power amp modeling and the half stack's power amp section).

Re-arranging the preset just doesn't sound as good for the OUT that I'm sending to the mixing board. I tried the standard tricks: putting all my delay, reverb, chorus, and flanger blocks before the cab block and sending an out to Output 2 before it hits the cab block. But that just doesn't have the same tonal richness when coming through the FOH as having those effects AFTER the cab block.

I've made a thread in the wish list forum but, unfortunately, it's only that right now: a wish. And until I can figure out a solution to this problem, I'll be stuck with a subpar stage tone, going through a cab and power amp twice. :-|

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/101629-wish-output-2-option-disable-cab-power-amp-modeling.html
 
On the G66 web site there is a video by Cooper showing how to do what you want; it looks pretty straightforward, it just requires you to put the cab last in the chain which could be somewhat counter intuitive.
 
Don't some of the drive models act like a preamp?

Could you setup 2 signal paths, split the signal before amp1, take the split to a drive block emulating a pre-amp section (or amp2 if you can turn off the power amp section... am I imagining that there was a per block setting for that?). Run amp1 into cab1 per normal, but pan the output hard left. Take the output from the preamp chain, pan hard right.

Join the chains back together and run through all your post amp blocks. But remove any stereo-ness from those. So that each side doesn't interfere with the other. Now you run out1-left into the desk, and out1-right into the head's return...

Possible? Yes...? fun: No.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom