Input Levels

A

Anthony David

Experienced
Hey all, got a little anecdote/question for you. I've had my axe2 since September I think. Always loved most everything about it. I noticed a few minutes ago that the instrument input was all the way down on the I/O screen. How can this be? If it's all the way down there shouldn't be sound right? Well turned it up and holy shit does it sound better. I set as high as I could go without seeing red on the LEDs. Just wow is everything better. Problem is, everything is too loud now. Even factory presets I haven't touched are really loud with the output way down. Noise is much more prominent, high gain patches seem really high gain. This has given me a quite a surprise. Anyways, I just wonder, why is there still input with the input turned all the way down?
 
Something I forgot to add. Factory presets that were clean before, are now distorted. The 59 bassman patch for example. Was clean before but not anymore. Is that patch clean for you guys or are things normal now for me?
 
I would also like to know how to calibrate this definitively. I have the input knob set at 50% and the input red LEDs are 'tickled'.
It's been the opposite for me - factory presets are loud and some presets clip the output LED - and the 59 bassman patch is distorted for me.
 
Man, I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by this. I felt like such a dumbass :lol. What you said is basically what everyone has always told me, set the input just below clipping level. I'd love to hear confirmation of this with the axefx though.
 
The input level should not affect your sound, it just determines the level of the A/D conversion for the best S/N ratio.

However, extreme settings like all the way down or up are known to cause a slight difference in tone. The 59 Bassman patch should be on the edge to breakup. So depending on your playing or your guitar, yes, it can distort slightly.

If you still want to benefit from the best S/N ratio but want your "old" sound back, you can adjust the global input gain a little.
 
Hi Guys,

Since I have built about 50+ presets most of which are clean, my approach is this. Have your input turned up to about 70 or 80% for single coil pups. For higher gain pups, turn it down and follow the procedure below and then "drive" it to your liking.

On each preset that you use, level each block except for the main amp so that whether bypassed or not, there is no perceivable change in volume. You may have to turn the main amp level down so that you avoid clipping just while you do this. (Thanks to Yek for this suggestion.) The reason for this is that you can create blocks that can be transferrable between presets or made global and your preset will not have the volume affected. The exception is compression which relies on signal levels to determine how much of the effect will influence the volume.

Once you have the other blocks levelled, time to check your output mixer (far right) and ensure your output slide from each channel and your main output are 0 dB unless you need to boost/pad for other reasons. I add about 8dB to certain output channels and leave the main at zeros as I want plenty of headroom on my clean signal and I leave the main to adjust for the venue or on the fly via my mfc.

Finally, if you are using FRFR, set the main output knob on the front panel to 12 o'clock then adjust the amp block level to normal playing level. You should not have any clipping unless your input is too low and you have your amp too high for your target level of sound. Turn the amp down and adjust the input via the OI menu -> audio so that it's driven correctly.

Others can add/subject from my approach but it works for me.
 
And different pickups have different amount of output so yes, many of the "clean amps factory presets" will definitely distort with many humbuckers, depending on how hard you play and volume controll settings and tone controll settings.
 
Zwiebelchen said:
The input level should not affect your sound, it just determines the level of the A/D conversion for the best S/N ratio.

However, extreme settings like all the way down or up are known to cause a slight difference in tone. The 59 Bassman patch should be on the edge to breakup. So depending on your playing or your guitar, yes, it can distort slightly.

If you still want to benefit from the best S/N ratio but want your "old" sound back, you can adjust the global input gain a little.
Click to expand...

For me, that patch is really distorted. It was a pretty big difference. But with EMG 808s, that's a high output pickup right? It would cause lots of gain on patches made for single coils? Thanks for the response, I was thinking there was something weird with my guitar. It's already got a wiring problem, so I assumed the worst. It's a relief alright. Thanks for the help man!

StratnVox said:
Hi Guys,

Since I have built about 50+ presets most of which are clean, my approach is this. Have your input turned up to about 70 or 80% for single coil pups. For higher gain pups, turn it down and follow the procedure below and then "drive" it to your liking.

On each preset that you use, level each block except for the main amp so that whether bypassed or not, there is no perceivable change in volume. You may have to turn the main amp level down so that you avoid clipping just while you do this. (Thanks to Yek for this suggestion.) The reason for this is that you can create blocks that can be transferrable between presets or made global and your preset will not have the volume affected. The exception is compression which relies on signal levels to determine how much of the effect will influence the volume.

Once you have the other blocks levelled, time to check your output mixer (far right) and ensure your output slide from each channel and your main output are 0 dB unless you need to boost/pad for other reasons. I add about 8dB to certain output channels and leave the main at zeros as I want plenty of headroom on my clean signal and I leave the main to adjust for the venue or on the fly via my mfc.

Finally, if you are using FRFR, set the main output knob on the front panel to 12 o'clock then adjust the amp block level to normal playing level. You should not have any clipping unless your input is too low and you have your amp too high for your target level of sound. Turn the amp down and adjust the input via the OI menu -> audio so that it's driven correctly.

Others can add/subject from my approach but it works for me.
Click to expand...

This is essentially what I do now, I definitely do find it easier to keep all block levels at 0db and control volume with the amp. Like you, that was a revelation for me. I never used global blocks before, don't really know what one is, but I haven't had time to look in the manual. You've intrigued me man :D, I'm looking it up tonight. Thanks dude!

jeppekristoffer said:
And different pickups have different amount of output so yes, many of the "clean amps factory presets" will definitely distort with many humbuckers, depending on how hard you play and volume controll settings and tone controll settings.
Click to expand...

So this confirms what I thought about the output causing all the distortion. Just output differences in the pickups, eh? Thanks for the help man!
 
mogvinda said:
Mine is set at 13.7%. Much above that and the Strat sounds really harsh on most presets.
Click to expand...
Wow, you must have hot pups!
Have your checked the input within the preset using Axe Edit or Layout -> In/Gate. The Level should be 0dB and the impedance on Auto/1M. To get a better signal to noise through the A/D, lower the Level to say -20dB. A single coil Strat Pup at 80% should produce a -25 to -35 dB signal even when played hard. I assume your input to the Axe Fx II is via the front Input 1.
Maybe worth having someone check out your preset. Unfortunately, I'm away for a couple of days but I'd like to help get that signal a little closer to normal.
 
There have been hundreds of threads about this.

Input A/D Level indeed only regards Signal-To-Noise Ratio. Adjusting it within most of the range will not affect the volume level or sound/tone. Except at extreme settings (minimum, maximum).

If you had it set at its minimum, you must notice a hell of a better tone now! :)
This may also have cured the issues you wrote about previously.

What you're hearing now, is the "normal" tone. Yes, as mentioned by others, hot pickups will distort some of the stock presets. That's normal. One way to fix this is decreasing Input Trim. Or use Global Amp Gain to compensate for different guitars.

More info about clipping and levels:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/read-me/47443-about-clipping-new-post.html
 
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