FW 11 Jumpered Plexi Video - VH's I'm The One

Since Laz will debate with me no matter what I say or how diplomatically I try to be with him - thanks for saying the same thing. It's how you dial it Laz. It's not one thing. It's how YOU make it. This isn't a homogenization type of thing. If you want to dial it your way, then dial it your way. I'll dial it my way, Adam dialed it his way. Different folks = different approaches/uses/preferences = different flavors. Third time I've stated the same thing. There's no 'one sound' to a jumpered Plexi.

dude -- what is there to debate?

I agree -- you can dial it in any way you want. We are in agreement. It is all good!

My point is that there is a "traditional" tone associated with jumpered amps. The tone being demonstrated in video is not IMO.

Personally I like Pre-spandex pants Jumpered Marshall tones (traditional/vintage) .

I know a few folks that use working out with a trainer as an excuse to breakout their old spandex pants.:eek:

To each his own :lol
 
O.K., these notes are aggregated from a bunch of different sources ( the MetroAmp Forum, TGP, HRI, etc; ). Like I mentioned, Mark Abrahamian was helpful and some of these quotes are directly from either Dave Friedman or John Suhr ….

Since I’m NOT a beta tester, I have no idea how the advanced parameters have changed ? And I’m not an electrical engineer either, so most of this is complete “greek” to me ( no offence indented to any Greek Axe-Fx II owners ) !

Eddie’s Plexi # 12301 after Dave Friedman’s latest restoration:

Split cathode V1a 250uF / 820,V1b .68 / 820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
bright cap on vol pot 0,005uF
470k mixer resistors
500pF mixer bypass cap
Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
33k / 500pF tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
uF cap on presence control
.022uf output couplers
47pf on PI

The Power Supply Sags …. In fact, Dave Friedman said that in Eddie’s # 1, the power supply sags about 70+ volts with normal wall voltage dimmed, and 50 some volts with a variac on it” ….
B+ and Plate Voltages drop …. Mark Abrahamson ( Rockstah ) said the B+ in the amps he’s measured were around 363 dcv, and while he evidently didn’t take the 120v measurement, he estimated that they would normally run between 410 dcv and 500 dcv ?
Tube Bias drops …, which is why everyone who uses a Variac says to “crank the bias” ! Again Dave Friedman’s comment was: Now I have said this before, the amp is biased to like 85ma with normal wall voltage and then dropped with a variac to 90 volts. This will bring the bias down to around 50ma.” Of course “the” amp he was referring to was Eddie’s # 1 ….
You shouldn’t really have to worry about Cathode Stripping because Ed’s amp at 5.5V on the heater, and running them 5 - 10% lower has been shown to increase tube life and stability. Ed’s went from 6.6 with 115VAC at normal to 5.8 at 87VAC. John Suhr said, “You also have to get into much higher plate voltages to worry about that.”

I’m guessing that the frequency response of the Power Transformer gets restricted somewhat too ? But I’ve never been able to find any specific measurements on that ?

* Finally, don’t forget that Ed used a lot of cord ( extra capacitance ) in front of the Amp, as well as an Echoplex EP-3 as a slight booster ( James Santiago’s EP-3 tonematch anyone ? ).
 
Two things

1. Amp is setup fairly bright and for explosive sensitivity
2. EVH is using high cap cabling to tame his highs.


Another player comes to mind and his custom designed amp ... Robben ford.

His dumble is sooooo bright that you need to use high cap cables (designed for the electrical systems of tanks) to connect the amp to the dumblelator. The cables are cut to a certain length etc. This was all designed by dumble to give Robben Ford an amp was that was incredibly expressive and basically on the verge of exploding.

The problem is without the high cap cabling the amp is so bright that it is unplayable.




O.K., these notes are aggregated from a bunch of different sources ( the MetroAmp Forum, TGP, HRI, etc; ). Like I mentioned, Mark Abrahamian was helpful and some of these quotes are directly from either Dave Friedman or John Suhr ….

Since I’m NOT a beta tester, I have no idea how the advanced parameters have changed ? And I’m not an electrical engineer either, so most of this is complete “greek” to me ( no offence indented to any Greek Axe-Fx II owners ) !

Eddie’s Plexi # 12301 after Dave Friedman’s latest restoration:

Split cathode V1a 250uF / 820,V1b .68 / 820
All coupling caps are 0.022uF, Bright channel coupling cap is 0.0022uF
bright cap on vol pot 0,005uF
470k mixer resistors
500pF mixer bypass cap
Bypass cap on V2a is .68uF
33k / 500pF tone stack combo
100k NFB resistor at 4 ohm tap
220k bias splitter resistors
uF cap on presence control
.022uf output couplers
47pf on PI

The Power Supply Sags …. In fact, Dave Friedman said that in Eddie’s # 1, the power supply sags about 70+ volts with normal wall voltage dimmed, and 50 some volts with a variac on it” ….
B+ and Plate Voltages drop …. Mark Abrahamson ( Rockstah ) said the B+ in the amps he’s measured were around 363 dcv, and while he evidently didn’t take the 120v measurement, he estimated that they would normally run between 410 dcv and 500 dcv ?
Tube Bias drops …, which is why everyone who uses a Variac says to “crank the bias” ! Again Dave Friedman’s comment was: Now I have said this before, the amp is biased to like 85ma with normal wall voltage and then dropped with a variac to 90 volts. This will bring the bias down to around 50ma.” Of course “the” amp he was referring to was Eddie’s # 1 ….
You shouldn’t really have to worry about Cathode Stripping because Ed’s amp at 5.5V on the heater, and running them 5 - 10% lower has been shown to increase tube life and stability. Ed’s went from 6.6 with 115VAC at normal to 5.8 at 87VAC.John Suhr said, “You also have to get into much higher plate voltages to worry about that.”

I’m guessing that the frequency response of the Power Transformer gets restricted somewhat too ? But I’ve never been able to find any specific measurements on that ?

* Finally, don’t forget that Ed used a lot of cord ( extra capacitance ) in front of the Amp, as well as an Echoplex EP-3 as a slight booster ( James Santiago’s EP-3 tonematch anyone ? ).
 
Of course you can dial it any way you want --

However there is a traditional tone associated with jumpered amps (Marshall/Bassman/tweeds etc) ..... and you of all people should know that!

The tone in the video is not the sound traditionally associated with jumpered vintage plexi amps.

Again you should know that.

Not saying it does not sound good or it is wrong.

However, if you want that daisy chained sizzling Marshall sound there are amps that capture that tone more effectively.

Just saying.
hmmm... I think, like Scott said, it really depends on how you dial it in. same as with the real deal. I've heard (real) jumpered Plexis sound like Adam's clip and what you're asking of it. it's really down to how you blend both channels...more sizzle from the Treble or less if you crank Normal up. this clip also has Treble and Presence on 10. if you go down the EJ route and keep those low, I'm pretty sure it'll sound less VH and more JB...

just wait until you can try it for yourself...
 
Adam you are spot on about the VH swing at up tempo too!

I've been working on Panama just because I've been re-building a couple Charvel guitars for fun.

VH seems to make time stand still on his rhythm work and gets a deep pocket at a fast tempo. He always seems to have "more time" to throw in an accent riff here and there in between all the other jaw dropping parts of the groove and keep a consistent swing.
 
Never questioned that.

My point is that there is a traditional pre-spandex pants jumper tone that is woody, very organic and just plain georgeous.

There are plenty of amps out there that can cook bacon all day long.

I just hope that the jumper model allows you to dial in those more "traditional" tones -- that is all.

If it does not -- no biggie.



hmmm... I think, like Scott said, it really depends on how you dial it in. same as with the real deal. I've heard (real) jumpered Plexis sound like Adam's clip and what you're asking of it. it's really down to how you blend both channels...more sizzle from the Treble or less if you crank Normal up. this clip also has Treble and Presence on 10. if you go down the EJ route and keep those low, I'm pretty sure it'll sound less VH and more JB...

just wait until you can try it for yourself...
 
Never questioned that.

My point is that there is a traditional pre-spandex pants jumper tone that is woody, very organic and just plain georgeous.

There are plenty of amps out there that can cook bacon all day long.

I just hope that the jumper model allows you to dial in those more "traditional" tones -- that is all.

If it does not -- no biggie.

What does woody mean, in regards to tone?
 
Awesome playing Adam!! Great sound - the note attack is unbelievable.. Any post processing done on the guitar track?
 
Sadly, when I block certain forum members, and then their posts are included as quotes, I end up having to read them accidentally. When we get done with AE 3.0 and Firmware 11, can we fix that in the forum settings?
 
What does woody mean, in regards to tone?

By woody I mean the amp allows the tonal characteristics of the guitar to be more prominent.

This really gets into them realm of personal tastes and music styles. It is impossible for me to hear and feel the guitar tone (wood) with all that bacon cooking in the background. I just can't do it.

Here are a couple of examples of what I am talking about with different guitar types, amps and music styles.





 
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Great job Adam , I've been trying to play this song for 20+ years lol still cant get that swing rythem going consistently measure to measure . I can do the " Shoobe doo wah " part though. Looking foward to the final version of FW 11 !
 
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