V6 firmware: Time to Release the Monster - Speaker Resonance Page

Okay, I had my first band practice with the new curve, matrix power amp and 2 4x12s. It sounds amazingggggff! It sounds much fuller and more articulate at the same time. The low end is clear, tight and punchy. Everything is huge! I mean huge!!! I feel like this is a magical tone moment. Everything sounds and feels so organic and thick. Palm mutes are massive too. All the high end nasties are gone and the over hyped bass feeling is history. But, don't get me wrong you need to redo your patches to get this right. I did dial in little bit extra high frequency resonance, just a touch. But you'll need to add quite a bit more treble and presence. Before I had little to no presence which seemed odd, now I find I'm dialing it up quite a bit. Nothing crazy though. I love this tip so much, Scott you get tweak of the year on this. Awesome. Simply awesome.
 
Cool guys - really glad some folks are digging it. I'm totally having a ball playing; sounds fantastic, blooms, and everything from big chords to single note lines have bloom and 'weight' without anything feeling 'stiff' or 'hyper real' if you get my drift... I just feel very connected to the guitar when I am playing... and it's noticeable to me even in the moment. Crunch stuff crunches right. Clean stuff carries more 'musical traction'.

Had some great gigs the past few weeks where everything was just sitting so well. I'm happy, I am playing inspired and it's really cool to see guys checking it out and digging it. Even the guys that don't like it - thanks for trying it.

I'm digging it.


It does have an effect even on poweramp/cab setup. Its sounds... I would say more natural especially the bass response. It's awesome!
Thanks Scott!!
 
Cool guys - really glad some folks are digging it. I'm totally having a ball playing; sounds fantastic, blooms, and everything from big chords to single note lines have bloom and 'weight' without anything feeling 'stiff' or 'hyper real' if you get my drift... I just feel very connected to the guitar when I am playing... and it's noticeable to me even in the moment. Crunch stuff crunches right. Clean stuff carries more 'musical traction'.

Had some great gigs the past few weeks where everything was just sitting so well. I'm happy, I am playing inspired and it's really cool to see guys checking it out and digging it. Even the guys that don't like it - thanks for trying it.

I'm digging it.

Precisely my thoughts Scott. Everything feeling so much smoother thanks to that curve, I can dial in some crazy volume and not have the icepick men come for the ears even at very "present" settings! This seems to be the element that has pushed us closer to more of that "real amp feel", what you note about the connected feel is very true indeed.

I'm still not 100% on picking the resonance of the cab. I'm still going with the stock speaker figures + 10 when it looks like there's a lot more to it with the enclosures involved.
 
Precisely my thoughts Scott. Everything feeling so much smoother thanks to that curve, I can dial in some crazy volume and not have the icepick men come for the ears even at very "present" settings! This seems to be the element that has pushed us closer to more of that "real amp feel", what you note about the connected feel is very true indeed.

I'm still not 100% on picking the resonance of the cab. I'm still going with the stock speaker figures + 10 when it looks like there's a lot more to it with the enclosures involved.

There is a lot more to choosing the resonance of the cab. I've just come up with this as a simplified way of getting starting points to go from; but in the end it always comes back to one simple acid test here - it has to sound right and feel right to me. And that should be the acid test for everyone, no matter what the settings say or where the parameter is set. The 'science' behind what I am doing and discussing is shaky at best when it comes to choosing that low resonance setting - it just seemed to work out that way more times than not. I focus on methods or 'paths' to get there. This seemed to work.

Note I end up much in the range of the stock settings in terms of that parameter. The relative values of the level of each (low/mid/high) is more important than focusing on that one low reso setting overall. How the curve is shaped and the values relative to each other work is the key to the whole thing.
 
FWIW, i've been coming around. I do miss some of the clarity of stock settings, but I've since started building settings from scratch and there is something to be said about these new curves. Does anyone have a G12M Resonance curve? I'd like to see how it compares to the C12N.

BTW, started with these resonance cruves and made my first tonematch last night. Never done that before, but I could tell the "grip" of the midrange with the new curves helped the overall end result:

Eruption Tonematch
(i'm not a van halen guy, and use a less paul, so I can't pull off that killer shredding stuff)

...Even the guys that don't like it - thanks for trying it.

I'm digging it.
 
FWIW, i've been coming around. I do miss some of the clarity of stock settings, but I've since started building settings from scratch and there is something to be said about these new curves. Does anyone have a G12M Resonance curve? I'd like to see how it compares to the C12N.

BTW, started with these resonance cruves and made my first tonematch last night. Never done that before, but I could tell the "grip" of the midrange with the new curves helped the overall end result:

Eruption Tonematch
(i'm not a van halen guy, and use a less paul, so I can't pull off that killer shredding stuff)

(From memory, all my gear is packed away right now from this past weekend).

Same values for all except just set the low res to 115Hz is where I ended up (I think).
 
I dinked with the speaker resonance a little, but didn't really hear that much difference, so I've been leaving it at defaults. This has encouraged me to mess around with it some more.

The (OH) and (RW) cabinets are "special blends" of IR's. Seeing as there is no manufacturer's impedance curve, what would you recommend using for say, Factory Cab 44 (4x12 Recto V30 OH)?
 
Scott - one of the things I intend to try out pretty soon is to keep the cab blocks on even though I'll be using Marshall 4x12 cabs..
I know that's sort of like heresy in here.... and I expected to be burned alive etc etc.. more unpleasentness... etc...

but here's why..
in the past [with other fx units] I've found that leaving the cab sims on [even though I'm using real cabs] softens the hi's a little..
yes you do get a boost in the bass / low mids, but I dial that out with eq..

as this is something I'm used to I'm going to try it with the Axe
I will of course try disabling the cabs globally to see how that sounds and compare the two..

the interesting thing about this thread is that I'm going to try to figure out how to dial the low end in via a combination of what you suggest here and a GEQ block [to flatten the low end of the Marshall's a little]

but then.. this is not another fx unit, it's an Axe and I may well find that taking out the cab blocks is the best thing to do..

I intend to try a few combinations of things out and see how they go...
of course my 'plan A' may crash and burn... but I got to try it..

and as you've stated.. the ear is the judge...
 
I dinked with the speaker resonance a little, but didn't really hear that much difference, so I've been leaving it at defaults. This has encouraged me to mess around with it some more.

The (OH) and (RW) cabinets are "special blends" of IR's. Seeing as there is no manufacturer's impedance curve, what would you recommend using for say, Factory Cab 44 (4x12 Recto V30 OH)?

Me?

I use my OP formula and would start at +10Hz above a Vintage 30's resonance for the "Low Res Freq" setting and then play along with that and move it until it sounds right. On my own personal presets, I will guess I end up around 110Hz or so (you guys are killing me with these questions - I have to pull out my rig and set it up to look!). :D All the other values - relative to each other - are *far* more important to what I am talking about here though. Folks are getting hung up on that one setting; that's not the magic 'thing' here. The resultant curve relatively speaking is *far* more important to this IMHO.

You have to trust your ears; and moving that low res Freq around from low to high (and back?) to find where you want to set it is the key. You have to teach yourself what you want to get from it to set it to match your own tastes. The bigger battle, IMHO, is letting the virtual amp react to the virtual cab in a realistic and accurate manner so that you have the dynamics and interactive nature that folks with tube amps are used to and expect. It allows for a better experience making music - which is the goal here. Inspired performances are the fruit of inspiring tones from your gear. I find this manner of approach to this set of parameters more inspiring... some agree, some might not. We are all our own enigmas! :D


Scott - one of the things I intend to try out pretty soon is to keep the cab blocks on even though I'll be using Marshall 4x12 cabs..
I know that's sort of like heresy in here.... and I expected to be burned alive etc etc.. more unpleasentness... etc...

but here's why..
in the past [with other fx units] I've found that leaving the cab sims on [even though I'm using real cabs] softens the hi's a little..
yes you do get a boost in the bass / low mids, but I dial that out with eq..

as this is something I'm used to I'm going to try it with the Axe
I will of course try disabling the cabs globally to see how that sounds and compare the two..

the interesting thing about this thread is that I'm going to try to figure out how to dial the low end in via a combination of what you suggest here and a GEQ block [to flatten the low end of the Marshall's a little]

but then.. this is not another fx unit, it's an Axe and I may well find that taking out the cab blocks is the best thing to do..

I intend to try a few combinations of things out and see how they go...
of course my 'plan A' may crash and burn... but I got to try it..

and as you've stated.. the ear is the judge...

No on is going to burn you in effigy here. It's just discussion, not battle. LOL. :D

I don't use conventional cabs, cannot offer expertise and won't pretend to. I have not tried this with conventional power amps and conventional cabs. Please do work with it and see if we can, as a community, make the entire experience of working with this box more fun for everyone.

That is what these sorts of things are all about. I often say on forums, "Enjoy the journey" and I'd guess many feel the emphasis is on the 'journey' in that phrase. They'd be mistaken. The emphasis is on 'enjoy' because the entire process of working with your gear is an ongoing and endless process.
 
Sorry to be blunt, Sidivan... but, did you even read this thread?

V30 = Celestion V30 = Free Standing (Fs) Resonant Frequency of 75Hz

I think too many people are still looking for that button on the front panel of the Axe that says, "THE SOUND IN YOUR HEAD."

Hint: there isn't one.
 
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No on is going to burn you in effigy here. It's just discussion, not battle. LOL. :D

I don't use conventional cabs, cannot offer expertise and won't pretend to. I have not tried this with conventional power amps and conventional cabs. Please do work with it and see if we can, as a community, make the entire experience of working with this box more fun for everyone.

That is what these sorts of things are all about. I often say on forums, "Enjoy the journey" and I'd guess many feel the emphasis is on the 'journey' in that phrase. They'd be mistaken. The emphasis is on 'enjoy' because the entire process of working with your gear is an ongoing and endless process.

I mostly play overseas so I never have the luxury of using my own cabs...
and so of course it makes sense to stick to something that is common / easy to get hold of when it comes to writing out the rider [a pair of Marshall 1960B cabs - and so I have a pair at home too for the rare UK gig I play]..
if you have have something exotic / hard to find, the promoter / venue will try to get what they think is just like it..
so if you ask for stereo FRFR monitoring...
they'll be thinking.. "don't know what all them F's and R's mean.. but he's a guitar player".. so you'll get a JCM800 and a 1960A.. lmao..

I don't even spec the power amp any more...
used to ask for a Marshall EL34 100 x 100 and a pair of 1960B cabs
and I can't count the number of times I showed up for sound check to find a JCM800 / JCM900 and a single 1960A
if they can't find me another cab I can work with a single stereo cab..
but I'm always thinking "sooooo glad I braught the 8008 power amp.."
it just goes to show.. the only person I can trust... is me mum.... sometimes..

hense my interest in
"to cab thru cab? or not to cab thru cab? that is the question"

your approach takes things beyond just EQ alone...
highly highly appealing
 
I mostly play overseas so I never have the luxury of using my own cabs...
and so of course it makes sense to stick to something that is common / easy to get hold of when it comes to writing out the rider [a pair of Marshall 1960B cabs - and so I have a pair at home too for the rare UK gig I play]..
if you have have something exotic / hard to find, the promoter / venue will try to get what they think is just like it..
so if you ask for stereo FRFR monitoring...
they'll be thinking.. "don't know what all them F's and R's mean.. but he's a guitar player".. so you'll get a JCM800 and a 1960A.. lmao..

I don't even spec the power amp any more...
used to ask for a Marshall EL34 100 x 100 and a pair of 1960B cabs
and I can't count the number of times I showed up for sound check to find a JCM800 / JCM900 and a single 1960A
if they can't find me another cab I can work with a single stereo cab..
but I'm always thinking "sooooo glad I braught the 8008 power amp.."
it just goes to show.. the only person I can trust... is me mum.... sometimes..

hense my interest in
"to cab thru cab? or not to cab thru cab? that is the question"

your approach takes things beyond just EQ alone...
highly highly appealing


Tis a fascinating tangent for sure.

Instead of the more Internet Forum use of acronyms - FRFR means nothing in the real world still - I'd just maybe put 'powered 12" wedges' instead with a list of acceptable brands. But alas, the same thing would happen as in the past with all the mix-ups based even on industry standard guitar amps.

I could easily make it through a gig with a set of Macke Thumps (we use them as vocal monitors in my band and carry 4 of them; we I use one at rehearsal instead of bringing my own) and while it is *certainly* not up to the level of my RCF NX 12 SMA that I prefer, it is a usable solution. My personal rider in your case would be exactly that and say, "Anything but Behringer or JBL EON"... lol. :D

It's a fascinating topic on so many fronts.

The most fascinating aspect of the whole system beyond the parameters is that the Axe-FX essentially cemented the direct to FOH/FRFR paradigm as legit. Back in 2007, it was the POD as the industry standard bearer for direct to FOH/FRFR and the general consensus (which is still holding strong today in many cases) is that it is thin and doesn't cut.

The most portable way to address it overseas to me would be to carry a wireless IEM setup; but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish; but it removes lugging a powered wedge around or specifying one on a gig rider.

There is no standard to all of it; it is still a fresh paradigm to the live performance arena and as such, we do what we do.

My approach hasn't wavered since I stumbled onto the Axe-FX and Fractal in 2007 - my level of comprehension and understanding to work with the tools has increased along with the capabilities and refinement/development of the Fractal firmwares and hardware over time. I play with a lot of joy in my little world because I truly am enjoying the gear and the journey with it... and hopefully everyone can get to that 'place' as a musician with their own gear and situation.

I won't face the overseas issue; I'm just a weekend warrior that enjoys and loves the craft... thanks for the discussion, because I have (and will) continue to enjoy it. Hopefully everyone that follows any of this can learn from the community moving the whole monster forward as we go! :D
 
I think the trouble with asking for monitors / wedges is that it can be misunderstood and you end up at the mercy of the mix eng for your stage sound..
my only issue with that is not having enough control over it myself..
you have to remember that when playing overseas English is not the first language..
and in some places there is no English at all.. just hand signals.. pointing and smiling..
but everyone seems to understand the ubiquitous 1960.. lmao

anyways.. I've derailed this thread enough.. lol...
when I've done my experiments at gig volumes with the Marshall cabs I'll write up my lil' discoveries....

EDIT: forgot to mention.... portable IEM is a pretty interesting / thought provoking suggestion... thanks dude..
at some point I'll look into that for sure..
 
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Sorry to be blunt, Sidivan... but, did you even read this thread?

V30 = Celestion V30 = Free Standing (Fs) Resonant Frequency of 75Hz

I think too many people are still looking for that button on the front panel of the Axe that says, "THE SOUND IN YOUR HEAD."

Hint: there isn't one.

I did not read the entire thread, no. It's 13 pages and I didn't have time to read through it. It's entirely possible my question was answered in the thread, sorry.

Now, the reason I asked the question is not that I'm looking for a "Sound in your head" button. In fact, I would imagine a lot of people don't agree with the choices I make in my patches and I hardly ever use other member's patches. To think you can simply plug into somebody else' settings and sound like them is a fool's errand. The reason I asked is because I haven't got the slightest clue on how the Ownhammer IR's are mixed with the "special recipe" that's in the Axe FX II. It's not a simple single-cab IR. For all I know, it could be 15 IR's mixed together. The reason for asking is to get some sort of bearing on where other people are starting with these types of IR's. I don't know enough about it to know if mixing IR's will affect this parameter, but I would assume that it does, though it could be negligible.

As with any other new parameter, I try to listen while tweaking to figure out how it changes the sound and then decide whether it's desirable or not. Unfortunately, this parameter has me scratching my head as I can't quite figure out what I'm listening for or how it interacts with the other settings.

Edit: Thank you Scott for answering. I appreciate the help.
 
read the quote from jay that I posted. It explains it.

Hi Sean,

I just read the quote from Jay you posted. Then I read it again . Then again :lol

It makes me think , how much of what we think we hearing when we tweak these settings is placebo effect?

As Scott says , the journey and all is fun, and I am enjoying it too.

Just wondering?
 
Hi Sean,

I just read the quote from Jay you posted. Then I read it again . Then again :lol

It makes me think , how much of what we think we hearing when we tweak these settings is placebo effect?

As Scott says , the journey and all is fun, and I am enjoying it too.

Just wondering?

LOL - I can stand back, hit one chord... let it ring, play some single notes... and you KNOW it's not placebo. ;) :D
 
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