jesussaddle
Power User
Any guitar teachers / picking experts? Or just an alternate picking guitar player who can write me a response : ) There's this one question that continues to trouble me. (Possibly this is one of the longest picking questions online..I hope someone responds with a YouTube video!).
I recognized some time ago that when I play two notes per string, and then shift to the next fattest string, and so forth, that starting pick direction matters. For example, starting on the sixth string, when starting on an upstroke it is much easier to play fast, since the hand motion right before the next string happens to be in the direction of the string being shifted to. E.g. Starting on the low E, upstroke on low E, downstroke on low E (towards A), then string cross and upstroke on A, etc.) This seems easy! But starting on a downstroke would mean that when you're about to cross strings the hand is actually moving away from the string it needs to cross over to (A), making it more difficult.
Reversing this, when I play two notes per string, starting on the 1st string (E) and then shifting to the next thinnest string (B), it is apparently much the same, again, since the hand motion right before the next string happens to be in the direction of the string being shifted to. This is when crossing several strings in a row.
But when I need to alternate 2 notes per string, back and forth on 2 neighboring strings, I find the following (Do you as well?):
This is in playing a pattern of 2-note-per-high E, followed by 2-note-per-B string, then repeating. For me, starting on a downstroke followed by an upstroke on the first string, before shifting to the 2nd string, and then moving back to the first string, it happens to be harder than the opposite way, of starting on an upstroke. Even though every other string cross this puts one's hand motion in the direction of the next string to be played (the hand is making an upstroke on the first string right before changing to the 2nd string). Reiterating, this is in playing two notes per string on E, 2 notes on B, then 2 notes again on E, etc.
It would appear that its the motion of moving back to the initial string that makes it hard. And I'm beginning to think it is relative to whether it is an upstroke or downstroke instead of whether its inside or outside picking. In other words it depends on whether the pick is leaving a string and bouncing downward (hard), versus leaving a string bouncing upward (easier). It could be that those downward bounces are more difficult. (i.e. inside picking, but up-&-then-down inside picking specifically). Downward bounces, as in upward, then off the B string towards the high E, are hard for me maybe because my first finger, that must compensate and catch them, has less muscle than would my thumb, which would be used in the case of upward bounces. It seems ridiculous that gravity itself is a factor, meaning that the pick bouncing downward is helped rather than slowed by gravity, as it would be if it were bouncing upward off a string, as after striking the high E and moving towards the B. Mainly I think this is all relative to hand strength, so people with strong or larger hands would not notice as much. That's where I could use feedback. Is this really just an issue of first finger weakness?
I.e. on the 2nd string you have a downstroke followed by an upstroke, and then its necessary to cross back to the first string while inside picking, with the hand heading away from the next string, but being slowed and bounced downward towards the E to some degree by hitting the B string. This is where its questionable. Why is this difficult specifically, when doing exactly the opposite move, from E to B, is easy?
If you reverse that exercise, and start on the B for 2 notes, then the high E (thinnest string) for 2 notes, one would assume it would be the same, since you still have that opposing direction movement, though this time it happens after the 2nd note (after the downstroke on B there is an upstroke on B, when the next move is to cross to the high E string).
But when playing two notes per string, then going back to the original string and starting over, this gets confusing. For e.g. if I start on the high E as an upstroke, followed by a downstroke on it, followed by an upstroke on B, this is the same difficult move (a switch to the neighboring string while headed in the opposite direction), but now I'm headed to a downstroke on B, followed by an upstroke on E. But it is infinitely easier for me than if it were a downstroke, then an upstroke on B followed by a downstroke on E . Well maybe not infinitely, but I can play the former at least 3 times faster.
I still don't know why an inside downward stroke (e.g. E), followed by jumping to the next higher string (gravity-wise - E.g. B), would be easier than an inside upward stroke (E.g. on B) followed by jumping to the next lower string (gravity-wise - E.g. E). My only conclusion is that it is an issue of where the thumb is and where the first finger is. In other words the first finger is below the thumb physically, so moving to strings that are physically lower, and being propelled downward by that little upstroke on the B string, the first finger is less able to respond and reverse the motion, than the thumb would be if the movements were reversed, and the bounce of the pick would be upward, off the E string towards the B, with the thumb being in charge of receiving and reversing that motion. The pick bouncing downward is WITH gravity, and the pick bouncing upward is AGAINST gravity. So the first finger just has a lot of trouble with those inside picking moves towards the next "higher string" i.e. B to the high E. Because gravity propels the pick downward after its bounce off the B string, and the first finger must catch it (being not so strong as the thumb).
Or do I have this completely wrong? I would like to know if this is true and if there is some solution, other than that impossible Steve Morse two-finger grip, which I can't make work).
I recognized some time ago that when I play two notes per string, and then shift to the next fattest string, and so forth, that starting pick direction matters. For example, starting on the sixth string, when starting on an upstroke it is much easier to play fast, since the hand motion right before the next string happens to be in the direction of the string being shifted to. E.g. Starting on the low E, upstroke on low E, downstroke on low E (towards A), then string cross and upstroke on A, etc.) This seems easy! But starting on a downstroke would mean that when you're about to cross strings the hand is actually moving away from the string it needs to cross over to (A), making it more difficult.
Reversing this, when I play two notes per string, starting on the 1st string (E) and then shifting to the next thinnest string (B), it is apparently much the same, again, since the hand motion right before the next string happens to be in the direction of the string being shifted to. This is when crossing several strings in a row.
But when I need to alternate 2 notes per string, back and forth on 2 neighboring strings, I find the following (Do you as well?):
This is in playing a pattern of 2-note-per-high E, followed by 2-note-per-B string, then repeating. For me, starting on a downstroke followed by an upstroke on the first string, before shifting to the 2nd string, and then moving back to the first string, it happens to be harder than the opposite way, of starting on an upstroke. Even though every other string cross this puts one's hand motion in the direction of the next string to be played (the hand is making an upstroke on the first string right before changing to the 2nd string). Reiterating, this is in playing two notes per string on E, 2 notes on B, then 2 notes again on E, etc.
It would appear that its the motion of moving back to the initial string that makes it hard. And I'm beginning to think it is relative to whether it is an upstroke or downstroke instead of whether its inside or outside picking. In other words it depends on whether the pick is leaving a string and bouncing downward (hard), versus leaving a string bouncing upward (easier). It could be that those downward bounces are more difficult. (i.e. inside picking, but up-&-then-down inside picking specifically). Downward bounces, as in upward, then off the B string towards the high E, are hard for me maybe because my first finger, that must compensate and catch them, has less muscle than would my thumb, which would be used in the case of upward bounces. It seems ridiculous that gravity itself is a factor, meaning that the pick bouncing downward is helped rather than slowed by gravity, as it would be if it were bouncing upward off a string, as after striking the high E and moving towards the B. Mainly I think this is all relative to hand strength, so people with strong or larger hands would not notice as much. That's where I could use feedback. Is this really just an issue of first finger weakness?
I.e. on the 2nd string you have a downstroke followed by an upstroke, and then its necessary to cross back to the first string while inside picking, with the hand heading away from the next string, but being slowed and bounced downward towards the E to some degree by hitting the B string. This is where its questionable. Why is this difficult specifically, when doing exactly the opposite move, from E to B, is easy?
If you reverse that exercise, and start on the B for 2 notes, then the high E (thinnest string) for 2 notes, one would assume it would be the same, since you still have that opposing direction movement, though this time it happens after the 2nd note (after the downstroke on B there is an upstroke on B, when the next move is to cross to the high E string).
But when playing two notes per string, then going back to the original string and starting over, this gets confusing. For e.g. if I start on the high E as an upstroke, followed by a downstroke on it, followed by an upstroke on B, this is the same difficult move (a switch to the neighboring string while headed in the opposite direction), but now I'm headed to a downstroke on B, followed by an upstroke on E. But it is infinitely easier for me than if it were a downstroke, then an upstroke on B followed by a downstroke on E . Well maybe not infinitely, but I can play the former at least 3 times faster.
I still don't know why an inside downward stroke (e.g. E), followed by jumping to the next higher string (gravity-wise - E.g. B), would be easier than an inside upward stroke (E.g. on B) followed by jumping to the next lower string (gravity-wise - E.g. E). My only conclusion is that it is an issue of where the thumb is and where the first finger is. In other words the first finger is below the thumb physically, so moving to strings that are physically lower, and being propelled downward by that little upstroke on the B string, the first finger is less able to respond and reverse the motion, than the thumb would be if the movements were reversed, and the bounce of the pick would be upward, off the E string towards the B, with the thumb being in charge of receiving and reversing that motion. The pick bouncing downward is WITH gravity, and the pick bouncing upward is AGAINST gravity. So the first finger just has a lot of trouble with those inside picking moves towards the next "higher string" i.e. B to the high E. Because gravity propels the pick downward after its bounce off the B string, and the first finger must catch it (being not so strong as the thumb).
Or do I have this completely wrong? I would like to know if this is true and if there is some solution, other than that impossible Steve Morse two-finger grip, which I can't make work).
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