Newbie to Fractal - Buy used FXIII MKII or new FM9?

[Dave Merrill]

Hi Dave, Would you elaborate on "but footswitches and controls on a floor unit is really different ergonomically than a III and an FC"? Based on hearing reviews that the FX III is not easy to use from the front panel, I foresee using Axe edit more often than not or even most of the time. The reason I think this is that even with the Helix Floor unit being very user friendly device, I found myself gravitating to HX edit.

I just meant that editing using knobs and a screen on a floor unit isn't great physically.

There are pretty widely differing opinions on editing the III from the front panel.

When I first got mine, I intentionally didn't use the editor much at all, since I didn't want to be helpless without a computer. Because of that probably, for me the front panel is fine, with the exception of things it just doesn't do, like copying an FC footswitch definition into another layout, and bulk operations like disabling a block in all scenes. I also find switching between a pick and a mouse awkward, more so for some reason than between pick and knob.

Could the front panel interface be improved? Sure, that's true of pretty much everything, but really, it's fine, and the recent double-tap shortcuts are a welcome improvement.

Some people don't agree. You may have seen Rhett Schull's YouTube review, where he said it was the best sounding modeler, but he found the front panel impossible. He's a poster child for shoulda-read-the-manual, or taken Cooper Carter's course, or even just lost the attitude that he shouldn't have to actually learn how to use it, and spent a day working with it. The major things he got stuck on aren't hard, he just didn't internalize how to do them. The front panel's not bad, really, especially considering everything it can do.

About the Helix, it's what I had before the III (still have it actually, just don't use it like ever), and I love that interface. BUT, the Helix is way simpler, way fewer parameters for everything. It does have the totally brilliant feature that its footswitches double as touch-activated buttons, providing instant and intuitive navigation to the blocks that are important enough for you to put them on footswitches. That's a great innovation, kudos to Line 6 for that, but the FCs don't have the hardware for it, and the Axe would still have many times more parameters. Also, if the concern is that you want to be able to edit at a gig, doing that with the Helix on the floor would suck, like with the FM9 on the floor.

Bottom line, don't believe the folks who say the front panel of the III is unusable, try it yourself. I think you'll find that it's quite powerful and well thought out, like everything Fractal. The editor will still be available if you want it.

 

[bharjhol]

Axe III and FC12 - dont wait your not going to believe how amazing it is - light years ahead of Line6 Helix IMO - been there done that - all set never looked back

You will be blown away by the AXE III and promise you will be way better guitarist the day you use it

Thanks rsvette I think that's the way I'm gonna roll!

 

[bharjhol]

That depends on the person. There's a recent thread on exactly this topic.

I have no real problems using it.

However, FM9 on the ground? I don't want to use my front panel unless I have to

Yes I found that with the Helix too, even though it is intuitive, I didn't care to use the front panel on the floor

 

[HereToday]

Hi Budda, why would you recommend the MC8 over the FC 12 (other than it being cheaper)? Would the MC8 integrate with the FX3 as weel and completely as the FC12?

I had the MC8 and have a couple of FC6's. All good gear and you won't be disappointed whichever way you go. That said, I sold my MC8 since I really didn't need it. If I had to do it all over, I would still go the Fractal FC route due easier integration and a bit sturdier gear. If I were trying to shave a few bucks, then I would be happy making due with the MC8.

 

[bharjhol]

if its just for recording even fm9 is overkill yet axe fx3....i would suggest fm3 if your intention is good guitar tone with some quality fx. If you are doing semi
pro/pro recordings you will anyways for the most part not use reverbs and delays or use them only for monitoring.

I have an Axe Fx3, if i was not gigging with it...for ONLY studio/recording purposes i would get fm3 or maybe an fm9.

I definitely KNOW all of this is overkill for me, I don't use all the capabilities of the Helix so I doubt I will do that with the FX3 . Although I feel like getting the FX3 , Maybe I should consider getting an FM3 for now and get to learn Fractal and then switch when an FX4 comes out , doubt that will happen though

 

[bharjhol]

Thanks Dav

I just meant that editing using knobs and a screen on a floor unit isn't great physically.

There are pretty widely differing opinions on editing the III from the front panel.

When I first got mine, I intentionally didn't use the editor much at all, since I didn't want to be helpless without a computer. Because of that probably, for me the front panel is fine, with the exception of things it just doesn't do, like copying an FC footswitch definition into another layout, and bulk operations like disabling a block in all scenes. I also find switching between a pick and a mouse awkward, more so for some reason than between pick and knob.

Could the front panel interface be improved? Sure, that's true of pretty much everything, but really, it's fine, and the recent double-tap shortcuts are a welcome improvement.

Some people don't agree. You may have seen Rhett Schull's YouTube review, where he said it was the best sounding modeler, but he found the front panel impossible. He's a poster child for shoulda-read-the-manual, or taken Cooper Carter's course, or even just lost the attitude that he shouldn't have to actually learn how to use it, and spent a day working with it. The major things he got stuck on aren't hard, he just didn't internalize how to do them. The front panel's not bad, really, especially considering everything it can do.

About the Helix, it's what I had before the III (still have it actually, just don't use it like ever), and I love that interface. BUT, the Helix is way simpler, way fewer parameters for everything. It does have the totally brilliant feature that its footswitches double as touch-activated buttons, providing instant and intuitive navigation to the blocks that are important enough for you to put them on footswitches. That's a great innovation, kudos to Line 6 for that, but the FCs don't have the hardware for it, and the Axe would still have many times more parameters. Also, if the concern is that you want to be able to edit at a gig, doing that with the Helix on the floor would suck, like with the FM9 on the floor.

Bottom line, don't believe the folks who say the front panel of the III is unusable, try it yourself. I think you'll find that it's quite powerful and well thought out, like everything Fractal. The editor will still be available if you want it.

Thanks so much Dave for the comprehensive explanation!! Yes, I plan to invest the time to learn the how to use the front panel. So is the 120 bucks course by Cooper the somewhat short cut way to learning that rather than struggling through it myself?

 

[bharjhol]

I had the MC8 and have a couple of FC6's. All good gear and you won't be disappointed whichever way you go. That said, I sold my MC8 since I really didn't need it. If I had to do it all over, I would still go the Fractal FC route due easier integration and a bit sturdier gear. If I were trying to shave a few bucks, then I would be happy making due with the MC8.

Thanks HereToday, i am leaning towards the FC12.

 

[bharjhol]

I just meant that editing using knobs and a screen on a floor unit isn't great physically.

There are pretty widely differing opinions on editing the III from the front panel.

When I first got mine, I intentionally didn't use the editor much at all, since I didn't want to be helpless without a computer. Because of that probably, for me the front panel is fine, with the exception of things it just doesn't do, like copying an FC footswitch definition into another layout, and bulk operations like disabling a block in all scenes. I also find switching between a pick and a mouse awkward, more so for some reason than between pick and knob.

Could the front panel interface be improved? Sure, that's true of pretty much everything, but really, it's fine, and the recent double-tap shortcuts are a welcome improvement.

Some people don't agree. You may have seen Rhett Schull's YouTube review, where he said it was the best sounding modeler, but he found the front panel impossible. He's a poster child for shoulda-read-the-manual, or taken Cooper Carter's course, or even just lost the attitude that he shouldn't have to actually learn how to use it, and spent a day working with it. The major things he got stuck on aren't hard, he just didn't internalize how to do them. The front panel's not bad, really, especially considering everything it can do.

About the Helix, it's what I had before the III (still have it actually, just don't use it like ever), and I love that interface. BUT, the Helix is way simpler, way fewer parameters for everything. It does have the totally brilliant feature that its footswitches double as touch-activated buttons, providing instant and intuitive navigation to the blocks that are important enough for you to put them on footswitches. That's a great innovation, kudos to Line 6 for that, but the FCs don't have the hardware for it, and the Axe would still have many times more parameters. Also, if the concern is that you want to be able to edit at a gig, doing that with the Helix on the floor would suck, like with the FM9 on the floor.

Bottom line, don't believe the folks who say the front panel of the III is unusable, try it yourself. I think you'll find that it's quite powerful and well thought out, like everything Fractal. The editor will still be available if you want it.

Re-read this and what you say makes sooooo much sense! Thanks again.

 

[TSJMajesty]

Just last night I wanted to do something with a preset I'd never done before, and I did it on the unit w/o needing to look up the procedure in the manual. Once you know your way around how to navigate through the various screens and pages, it's fairly intuitive.
I feel that most people who don't like it probably haven't taken the time to learn it. I'll hold my pick in the 1st & 2nd joints of my middle finger while operating the front panel; I have to put the pick down to use a mouse.

If you are doing semi pro/pro recordings you will anyways for the most part not use reverbs and delays or use them only for monitoring.

Why not? And what about re-amping?
The Axe would be my choice over the FM3 for recording due to its 8x8 USB audio interface.

 

[Budda]

Hi Budda, why would you recommend the MC8 over the FC 12 (other than it being cheaper)? Would the MC8 integrate with the FX3 as weel and completely as the FC12?

I cant answer about “completely” because that would be a use case thing. Morningstar has an editor for their line which is fairly straightforward, and new functionality is added relatively frequently. You can set each button to do up to 16 commands, the screen is a decent size imo and their tutorials are easy to follow. I have never programmed MIDI before using mine. Between their official YT and our @Roby Rocks I was up and running in an hour.

 

[unFILTERed]

Why not? And what about re-amping?
The Axe would be my choice over the FM3 for recording due to its 8x8 USB audio interface.

can’t you reamp
with fm3? And even though it’s a cool feature (8x8 USB interface) i would not suggest Axe FX3 as a multi in&out audio interface. There are multiple reasons which would not be subject to this thread.

 

[rushfan]

Thanks Dav

Thanks so much Dave for the comprehensive explanation!! Yes, I plan to invest the time to learn the how to use the front panel. So is the 120 bucks course by Cooper the somewhat short cut way to learning that rather than struggling through it myself?

Definitely worth getting Cooper Carter’s course to jump start yourself on this gear!

 

[Bodde]

The FC-12 has 4 Midi Controller inputs, and two switch inputs on the back. Nice bright readable displays. Built like a tank...

If you only use it for recording you don’t really need an FC-12 I guess. Just get two cheap expression pedals and hook it to the Axe fx III itself. That saves you a lot of money. If you don’t need two amp blocks you can also buy a used FM3. I guess you can find one easily with the FM9 on the market.

 

[unix-guy]

I guess you can find one easily with the FM9 on the market.

Not actually available for some time and still looking like it may be more time before any are. And the wait-list is still on the first day...

 

[bharjhol]

I see the FC12 is 599 on Fractal's site, Is that the normal/usual price? It shows 100 bucks off from 699. Is it usually 699?

 

[Budda]

I see the FC12 is 599 on Fractal's site, Is that the normal/usual price? It shows 100 bucks off from 699. Is it usually 699?

If it shows $100 off the normal price is $699 yes.

 

[bharjhol]

If it shows $100 off the normal price is $699 yes.

Thanks, bought it! And the used Axe FXIII Mk II. Thank you all, such an amazingly supportive group here!

 

[Jumpback]

Axe 3 Mk II is unstoppable in my studio, I Love it

 

[bebaldwin]

I have the III and a Helix. Big upgrade not that the Helix isn't great in its own right. If there's no warranty I'd seriously consider spending the extra cash and get a new one. I don't think the Turbo is going to be necessary for you. It's mostly for people that are using a ton of effects or Full Res Cabinets. It's only a 25% boost in clock speed. Coming from a Helix you wouldn't notice the difference. The AxeFx III is at least twice as powerful as the FM9. Since you don't gig and are using it at home I'm assuming you will have it hooked up to your computer. If that's the case you probably don't even need an FC controller which you can always purchase at a later date. I bought mine new from Fractal in a bundle with the FC-12. I have the FC-12 hooked into mine but only use it because then I can plug in 3 expression pedals. You can control everything with AxeEdit. I've never tried but you could also probably hook up a Morningstar MC8 to your computer and control AxeEdit with it using key commands. I control some programs with it like youTube, Amazing Slow Downer and Band In A Box.

 

[bharjhol]

I have the III and a Helix. Big upgrade not that the Helix isn't great in its own right. If there's no warranty I'd seriously consider spending the extra cash and get a new one. I don't think the Turbo is going to be necessary for you. It's mostly for people that are using a ton of effects or Full Res Cabinets. It's only a 25% boost in clock speed. Coming from a Helix you wouldn't notice the difference. The AxeFx III is at least twice as powerful as the FM9. Since you don't gig and are using it at home I'm assuming you will have it hooked up to your computer. If that's the case you probably don't even need an FC controller which you can always purchase at a later date. I bought mine new from Fractal in a bundle with the FC-12. I have the FC-12 hooked into mine but only use it because then I can plug in 3 expression pedals. You can control everything with AxeEdit. I've never tried but you could also probably hook up a Morningstar MC8 to your computer and control AxeEdit with it using key commands. I control some programs with it like youTube, Amazing Slow Downer and Band In A Box.

Thanks bebaldwin. "Coming from a Helix you wouldn't notice the difference" - don't quite know what context you said that in? I ended up ordering the FC12 from fractal, I guess I should have waited. You think the warranty is necessary?