They All Sound the Same Part Deux

AndyTNBD said:
Could you explain the physics behind that???
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idk the physics of it, I just know if you've got two elements that effect breakup and you offset one or both in varying amounts the end result breakup gets more complex than if they are exactly exactly the same. you can't have real world components that are truly exactly the same, just closely matched as possible, in a simulation where you could copy paste digital values of modeled analog components, if they aren't each offset to the same degree they are in real world that would be leaving a lot of harmonic content on the table
 
mixermang said:
for real you should try it, even just two distortion circuits in series, when you change the way they cascade into each other, via level or distortion amount or tone you get different shades of breakup. the effect compounds the more elements there are that differ from each other in variance. that's why amp designers spend so much effort on component tolerance matching, cause if there's too much variance, the circuit they got to breakup the way they like it in the prototype won't feel/sound the same in the next one they build. but the components can't all be the exact exact same, with pots that's fine since they are supposed to be variable but if all the resistor capacitor components in the circuit don't have any variance you'll miss a bunch of really important harmonics
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Utter nonsense.
 
FractalAudio said:
Utter nonsense.
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idk why you say it's nonsense, if it's not linear time invariant any element along the path that changes effects the others downstream, to the degree each differing element differs from the next. if you had two resistors of the exact same value effecting two cascading preamp tubes, and the two tubes were exactly the same, you'd have a lot less complex breakup than if the resistors reflected the real world very minute tolerance difference, they would effect the individual tubes slightly differently, the cascading tubes behavior would be offset from each other (more so from a timing difference) and you'd have a lot more complex breakup, everything compounds
 
Question: was the volume rolled off to the EXACT same amount for each take? In other words, was the volume knob touched? A slight nudge one way or the other can skew in the direction Im hearing. Last 2 examples have considerably less gain than the 1st 2.
 
mixermang said:
idk why you say it's nonsense, if it's not linear time invariant any element along the path that changes effects the others downstream, to the degree each differing element differs from the next. if you had two resistors of the exact same value effecting two cascading preamp tubes, and the two tubes were exactly the same, you'd have a lot less complex breakup than if the resistors reflected the real world very minute tolerance difference, they would effect the individual tubes slightly differently, the cascading tubes behavior would be offset from each other (more so from a timing difference) and you'd have a lot more complex breakup, everything compounds
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Nonsense. The complexity of the breakup is not a function of gain mismatch between stages. Tube stages are rarely, if ever, the same gain anyways.
 
Other than my sucky playing skills, this exercise completely exposes just about all my remaining weaknesses. I can definitely hear differences listening on phone with Bose cordless headphones (less so between 1 and 2), but don’t know which is which.
Signed:
Grateful in Texas (Someone who has a bit more money than talent who can afford the FX3, but doesn’t deserve it.)
 
DallasGlenn2005 said:
You’ve never heard me play. (Here, hold my beer and the chord sheet for Marry Had A Little Lamb)
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My ex father in law had quite a nice collection and let me tell you it sounded like a cat being swung around by its tail. He got home from work and sat down with the guitar and just loved playing. In my opinion, mission accomplished. If you love playing and an 8000 dollar les Paul or a 2500 dollar modeler makes you happy and you have the cash, you definitely deserve it.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
My ex father in law had quite a nice collection and let me tell you it sounded like a cat being swung around by its tail. He got home from work and sat down with the guitar and just loved playing. In my opinion, mission accomplished. If you love playing and an 8000 dollar les Paul or a 2500 dollar modeler makes you happy and you have the cash, you definitely deserve it.
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Man, you have a very positive perspective on life. I like it.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
My ex father in law had quite a nice collection and let me tell you it sounded like a cat being swung around by its tail. He got home from work and sat down with the guitar and just loved playing. In my opinion, mission accomplished. If you love playing and an 8000 dollar les Paul and a 2500 dollar modeler makes you happy and you have the cash, you definitely deserve it.
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Fixed that for you…;):cool:
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
My ex father in law had quite a nice collection and let me tell you it sounded like a cat being swung around by its tail. He got home from work and sat down with the guitar and just loved playing. In my opinion, mission accomplished. If you love playing and an 8000 dollar les Paul or a 2500 dollar modeler makes you happy and you have the cash, you definitely deserve it.
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and I'm sure the cat did also appreciate this alternative outlet
 
phil92 said:
and I'm sure the cat did also appreciate this alternative outlet
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Haha! My cats would be like "WTF ARE YOU DOING WITH MY TAIL!"
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FractalAudio said:
The complexity of the breakup is not a function of gain mismatch between stages
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gain mismatch no, but with tubes you have the time element, bias excursion time. where there are multiple cascading time based elements of distortion if they are exactly the same in a simulation they would be missing a lot of harmonic content, vs if each stage excursion time is offset with each their real world component tolerance variation, all the resistors/capacitors used to manipulate and control each gain stage. with the preamp it's really infinitesimal variances part to part but you can hear it when they are exactly the same vs if they are offset with real world component tolerance variation one to the next
 
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