How to best make Fractal sound like the real tube amp and AITR it is modeling?

Someone recommended the Celestion F12-X200 speakers. I guess if I replace the speakers in my 4x12 cab then I don't have to turn off the cab block and can use IRs?
 
Just to confirm, you’re not looking for a mic’d up amp right? I’m not trying to be snarky, but you’re coming back to IRs, and they are made with microphones…
Close or far mic’d, it’s utilizing a microphone. That’s not going to sound like a speaker in the room because it’s signal that’s actually been through a microphone.

I may be getting old and in the way, but I feel this has been covered to death on this forum.

All that said, obviously anyone can run anything they want and people have different requirements of realism. I have zero tolerance, so it’s very likely that I’m strongly biased beyond the average player. Maybe it’s like pickups, and you just have to spend the money and try some yourself.

Hope it helps.
 
Just to confirm, you’re not looking for a mic’d up amp right? I’m not trying to be snarky, but you’re coming back to IRs, and they are made with microphones…
Close or far mic’d, it’s utilizing a microphone. That’s not going to sound like a speaker in the room because it’s signal that’s actually been through a microphone.

I may be getting old and in the way, but I feel this has been covered to death on this forum.

All that said, obviously anyone can run anything they want and people have different requirements of realism. I have zero tolerance, so it’s very likely that I’m strongly biased beyond the average player. Maybe it’s like pickups, and you just have to spend the money and try some yourself.

Hope it helps.
Good question... I love how my FM3 sounds coming out of my headphones and my 5" monitors. But the monitors are very directional and if you bend down a little or even turn your head sideways the sound gets muffled unless they are so loud they hurt your ears. I only sit three feet away from my monitors. They are very directional.

I also have a Headrush FRFR12 and it sounds very muffled and directional too unless it is really cranked.. and even then it sounds directional.

My 4x12 Marshall 1960 cab with my 2204 sounds great a clear no matter the volume or where I am in the room. THIS is what I want from my FM-3 and speaker solution.

I have put my FM-3 into the return of my 2204 and it sounded great but the compromise was the stereo effects and the ability to change the cab IRs. I think it would be awesome to get the clarity of the 4x12 with room filling sound at any volume while also being able to change the IRs and have stereo sound. Just trying to figure out the best way to do this. I might have to compromise with the IRs and just use a regular cab but hopefully someday, if it is not already an option now, there will be a solution that can do this?
 
Those celestion f12x200 speakers look cool, I have wondered what they would be like in a 4x12.

There is a long thread about them here and I think also one on TGP, if I recall correctly people have had mixed results putting them in random cabs, some have liked it and some not so much.

The thing is, we don’t pay much attention to speaker t/s parameters and how they relate to the cab design for guitar cabs (since we don’t want the cabs to sound flat) but it’s very important to match the woofer to the cab when it comes to full range PA and bass gear. The woofer’s t/s parameters will dictate required cabinet internal volume and these cabs will be ported, and the port will be tuned (via diameter and length of the port tube) to a specific frequency so the bass response is flat (or flat-ish).

The celestion speaker is no different in this regard, in fact celestion supply recommended cab dimensions and port dimensions for optimal performance.

So will it work to just throw them in an existing 4x12… maybe, you might get lucky and be using a cab that happens to fall within the specifications for the speaker, or maybe the response is not flat but it is still good sounding with IRs.

When they were first announced I briefly considered them (along with some other FRFR stuff) but back when I was trying to use impulses I was mostly just using v30 impulses or v30 blended with something else, and given the cost of high end frfr vs the cost of a good used cab and power amp, it didn’t make sense for me personally to spend more to emulate something when it’s cheaper to just get the real thing.
 
OK, May as well say it. I knew coming in (April 2009, that the Amp in the room" would be lost. I honestly do not care about it.
I understand that some miss this, but as a few above stated didn't you know that on the way in?
Manny is correct, this has been discussed to death. My feelings are not meant to mean others shouldn't pursue this, just sayin, ?
 
@Fizz If you want to try a pair of those Celestion speakers, I’ve got them sitting in the box. I loaded them into a Forte’ cabinet and it wasn’t for me. I think I’ve tried just about everything that comes out. 😁
 
Yeah, I think I need to look at different FRFR speaker solutions. I don't think the Headrush 12" is a good speaker to use for what I am trying to do.
 
Yeah, I think I need to look at different FRFR speaker solutions. I don't think the Headrush 12" is a good speaker to use for what I am trying to do.
I would recommend using your existing cab and try out the Fryette power amp with it. I think that will give you what you asked for at the beginning of this thread.

If you choose to try the FRFR route, let me know. I will send you those Celestions for free and only ask you cover the shipping. The only stipulation will be that if it’s not for you, you offer them to someone else’s on this forum and only charge them shipping.

I’m tired of people spending hard earned money to try out 100 things before settling on to the setup that works for them.
 
I would recommend using your existing cab and try out the Fryette power amp with it. I think that will give you what you asked for at the beginning of this thread.

If you choose to try the FRFR route, let me know. I will send you those Celestions for free and only ask you cover the shipping. The only stipulation will be that if it’s not for you, you offer them to someone else’s on this forum and only charge them shipping.

I’m tired of people spending hard earned money to try out 100 things before settling on to the setup that works for them.

Wow. How cool of you, Manny. If Fizz doesn't take you up on that offer I'd be thrilled to try them
out and pass them along, as stipulated by you above. :)
 
In my experience, you will never get the “amp in the room” experience from a monitor, wedge, or “FRFR.” The same reason bass, drums, and vocals through them will never sound like their in-the-room counterparts.

With that said, I get great results at adding that low-end “thump” of a larger cabinet by EQ’ing it in.

Edit: I found the post by @Piing that gave me the idea, but it’s something along the lines of this:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/amp-in-the-room.141579/post-1677633

I set it up similar to this, but adjust the frequency to taste.
 
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I wouldn’t worry too much about using a power amp/cab and ‘losing’ the IR’s. Sure, it negates the need for IR’s, but if you find a cab you dig, there’s so many tone-shaping capabilities in the Fractal stuff that you can make it sound how you want. I’m currently using a 2x12 with WGS Retro 30’s, which are a warmed up version of V30’s, sometimes I find myself cutting some more mids out of an amp than I normally would if it were paired with a mathing cab, or maybe adding a little top end, but that’s really it.

I know I can get the tones I’m going for a lot quicker without IR’s than with them.….and it also prevents me from going down IR rabbit holes when I hear something I’m not digging as much, I just tweak the output EQ in the amp block and I’m good to go.
 
I would recommend using your existing cab and try out the Fryette power amp with it. I think that will give you what you asked for at the beginning of this thread.

If you choose to try the FRFR route, let me know. I will send you those Celestions for free and only ask you cover the shipping. The only stipulation will be that if it’s not for you, you offer them to someone else’s on this forum and only charge them shipping.

I’m tired of people spending hard earned money to try out 100 things before settling on to the setup that works for them.
Hey Manny, thanks for the offer... I think I'll take you up on that and if they don't work for me I'll contact @la noise and see if he still wants them at shipping cost. If he doesn't I'll offer them up here on the forum for anyone that wants to pay shipping to get them.

Having that Fryette would work out either way for me too because I've seen guys use it to re-amp their tube amps so they can play at lower volumes and with stereo effects :)
 
Hey Manny, thanks for the offer... I think I'll take you up on that and if they don't work for me I'll contact @la noise and see if he still wants them at shipping cost. If he doesn't I'll offer them up here on the forum for anyone that wants to pay shipping to get them.

Having that Fryette would work out either way for me too because I've seen guys use it to re-amp their tube amps so they can play at lower volumes and with stereo effects :)

Perfect. Yes, @la noise will be next in the chain, if they’re not for you. That’s exactly how this should work.
Private me your details and I’ll get them in the mail.
 
I wouldn’t worry too much about using a power amp/cab and ‘losing’ the IR’s. Sure, it negates the need for IR’s, but if you find a cab you dig, there’s so many tone-shaping capabilities in the Fractal stuff that you can make it sound how you want. I’m currently using a 2x12 with WGS Retro 30’s, which are a warmed up version of V30’s, sometimes I find myself cutting some more mids out of an amp than I normally would if it were paired with a mathing cab, or maybe adding a little top end, but that’s really it.

I know I can get the tones I’m going for a lot quicker without IR’s than with them.….and it also prevents me from going down IR rabbit holes when I hear something I’m not digging as much, I just tweak the output EQ in the amp block and I’m good to go.
Just chiming in....that's what I do with IRs.

An IR, used like this, is just a static EQ curve. I found a pair of the stock IRs that are "close enough" to my preferred sound, and if I want something different, I'd rather adjust an EQ than go through that search again.

I kind of feel like I'd take the same (e.g., your) approach if I decided to go with a real cab somewhere down the line.

At least to me, the impedance curve made more of a difference in terms of sound and feel than the IRs did. So, I actually just picked the IR that matched the impedance curve I liked best. It kind of felt like shopping for cabs, picking my favorite one, and then just keeping it.
 
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