bring the scene controllers feature to the next level

Imyourcluster

New Member
Hello guys,
Is there any chance to see in a future update the scene controllers feature be improved?
I would really enjoy being able to control all parameters I want within a preset just like
helix and quad cortex, not only 4

I think that this would allow us to manage dsp power better since we could just set some parameter changes for every scene instead of being obliged to load other blocks or channels for the same amps and fx's.
This should also help us with the switching audio gap between amps

In other words I wish I could use the same amps, drives and fx's for all the scenes but each with totally different parameters settings, allowing me to get different tones and sounds with the same setup

example:
scene 1: plexi amp with gain set to 3, EQ set in a certain way, delay feedback to 3, drive 1 on with gain set to 6, drive 2 off...

scene 2: plexi amp with gain set to 7, EQ set in a different way, delay feedback to 6, drive 1 on with gain set to 2, drvie 2 on with gain set to 5...

scene 3: other settings

etc..


wha do you guys think?
 
You do realize that a) you can use the same Scene Controller for controlling multiple parameters and b) there are 4 channels of controllers so you technically have 16 Scene Controllers per preset.

As far as something like the snapshots feature you're referring to on other devices I wouldn't expect it - it's been requested before.
 
You do realize that a) you can use the same Scene Controller for controlling multiple parameters and b) there are 4 channels of controllers so you technically have 16 Scene Controllers per preset.

As far as something like the snapshots feature you're referring to on other devices I wouldn't expect it - it's been requested before.
thanks fo your reply
I'll try to make it more clear: I'd lke to be able to set different parameter values for amp, effects, drive blocks etc. per each scene in a preset indipendently. If I got it right, at the moment I can do this with a maximum of 4 parameters per each scene (1 parameter for 1 scene controller); I'd like instead to unlock this limit and make it possible for all the parameters I want per each scene. Not sure if this is called snapshot on other units
 
thanks fo your reply
I'll try to make it more clear: I'd lke to be able to set different parameter values for amp, effects, drive blocks etc. per each scene in a preset indipendently. If I got it right, at the moment I can do this with a maximum of 4 parameters per each scene (1 parameter for 1 scene controller); I'd like instead to unlock this limit and make it possible for all the parameters I want per each scene. Not sure if this is called snapshot on other units
If you use multiple Amp Blocks and Multiple Drives/Delays/Reverbs/Etc. you would have access to multiple sets of 4 Channels; i.e. 8 Channels of controllers or 32 Scene Controllers per preset for your 8 Scenes. It may eat a bit more CPU on that particular preset though.
 
thanks fo your reply
I'll try to make it more clear: I'd lke to be able to set different parameter values for amp, effects, drive blocks etc. per each scene in a preset indipendently. If I got it right, at the moment I can do this with a maximum of 4 parameters per each scene (1 parameter for 1 scene controller); I'd like instead to unlock this limit and make it possible for all the parameters I want per each scene. Not sure if this is called snapshot on other units
Instead of Scene Controllers, you can use Control Switches to make multiple parameter changes (32 per I think?) and then assign the state of the control switch per scene.
 
thanks fo your reply
I'll try to make it more clear: I'd lke to be able to set different parameter values for amp, effects, drive blocks etc. per each scene in a preset indipendently. If I got it right, at the moment I can do this with a maximum of 4 parameters per each scene (1 parameter for 1 scene controller); I'd like instead to unlock this limit and make it possible for all the parameters I want per each scene. Not sure if this is called snapshot on other units
I understand what you're asking, but you don't have it (completely) right.

As I wrote in my first reply, you can use the SAME Scene Controller to control multiple parameters in each scene. Because each parameter you control has a full set of modifier parameters of which the modifier (scene controller in this case) is only 1.
 
If you use multiple Amp Blocks and Multiple Drives/Delays/Reverbs/Etc. you would have access to multiple sets of 4 Channels; i.e. 8 Channels of controllers or 32 Scene Controllers per preset for your 8 Scenes. It may eat a bit more CPU on that particular preset though.
In addition, using the channels of each block may be the better option here, anyway. Rather than control a particular parameter (or set of parameters) in a block for each scene, simply change channels of that block and have whatever settings you want.
 
Instead of Scene Controllers, you can use Control Switches to make multiple parameter changes (32 per I think?) and then assign the state of the control switch per scene.
This is a good way idea that I didn't think about to get more stuff with a similar behavior. The Control Switch, however, only has an on/off where a Scene Controller has a 0-100% range.

In the past, I have used a Scene Controller like a Control Switch (on Axe Fx II which didn't have Control Switches) by just setting it to 0 or 100 in each scene as needed.
 
This is a good way idea that I didn't think about to get more stuff with a similar behavior. The Control Switch, however, only has an on/off where a Scene Controller has a 0-100% range.

In the past, I have used a Scene Controller like a Control Switch (on Axe Fx II which didn't have Control Switches) by just setting it to 0 or 100 in each scene as needed.
The switch itself is on or off but you can make any parameter start and end exactly where you want it and even the time it takes to get there and back. It’s much more powerful than Scene controllers.
 
wha do you guys think?
Sure, it’s been pointed out many times on this forum that if scenes worked more like Helix or Axe-Edit snapshots, they would be more intuitive and allow you to control more parameters. Scene controllers do have the advantage of making it easier to share a single setting among parameters, but I suspect the way they work has more to do with the fact they were added instead of designed in from the start.
 
The switch itself is on or off but you can make any parameter start and end exactly where you want it and even the time it takes to get there and back. It’s much more powerful than Scene controllers.
They're different things with different powers. Control Switches offer offer variable start and end points and control over how fast you go from start to end. Scene Controllers offer variable start and end points, and six more variable points that Control Switches don't have.
 
…and six more variable points that Control Switches don't have.
Oh, you mean because there are 8 scenes and CS’s are preset level and can’t change what their function is per scene. I gotcha. But there are 6 of them and you can choose the state of all six for all 8 scenes so, still a lot of options.
 
Oh, you mean because there are 8 scenes and CS’s are preset level and can’t change what their function is per scene. I gotcha. But there are 6 of them and you can choose the state of all six for all 8 scenes so, still a lot of options.
True that. But you can only attach one Control Switch to a parameter, so you still only get two values. With different powers come different possibilities. :)
 
I'm obsessed with gapless switching, and I wrote a post going into detail about how I do it with Scene Controllers and Multiplexers:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/my-construction-of-gapless-presets.176655/

@unix-guy Channels are fantastic in so many ways, but you just don't get complete gaplessness with them, even if you switch between two identical channels.

@Imyourcluster One thing to try is, for the drives, rather than turning them on and off by bypassing, try keeping them on all the time and just using a Multiplexer instead: route one row of just your straight guitar signal through a shunt, and in the next row above or below, place your drive block. Route each row to the Multiplexer and switch between them, and you have gapless on / off of your drive. 🙂

For multiple parameters on amps (and anything else that has a modifier, like the drives), you can assign up to 32 of them to Scene Controllers. @unix-guy has the right idea here: Although there are only four Scene Controllers: you can assign, potentially all 32 of your available modifiers at one time to a Scene Controller 1, for instance, and just change the Min and Max value for each Scene Controller.

Here's the big thing if you go this route: ensure that in the modifier menu you set Update Rate to Fast, and reduce Attack and Release to 0 ms.

I talk about this in my post, plus by overly complicated spreadsheet to calculate Scene Controller percentages (with log formula for Input Gain) to get eight gapless tones in a single preset, one per scene.

The other thing is to figure out the general direction your moving your knobs. It's easiest to move all knobs assigned to a single Scene Controllers in the same direction, but you don't have to; you can alter the Start, Mid, and End for each modifier to yield all sorts of crazy curves (you can see some examples in the owner's manual), so you can have your Scene Controller 1 set to these percentages:

Scene 1 0%
Scene 2 14.3%
Scene 3 28.6%
Scene 4 42.9%
Scene 5 57.1%
Scene 6 71.4%
Scene 7 85.7%
Scene 8 100%

With those percentages, you're really just ensuring that all eight scenes move your modifier to a different x position on the modifier grid for every scene.

Then, for each individual parameter, you can use its individual modifier menu to adjust Min and Max values, and change the curve Start, Mid, and End points, along with the Slope, Scale, and Offset, if necessary, potentially to adjust all of your various parameters between eight scenes gaplessly with just Scene Controller 1. But having four Scene Controllers does help to simplify things a bit. I would love to have more Scene Controllers just to make the calculations between different groups of modifiers easier for gapless switching calculations, because adjusting curves between four scenes can get hairy when you only have three distinct points on the curve that you can set off the bat, between Start, Mid, and End. Another awesome option would be just to have Start, Mid 1, Mid 2, and End.
 
They're different things with different powers. Control Switches offer offer variable start and end points and control over how fast you go from start to end. Scene Controllers offer variable start and end points, and six more variable points that Control Switches don't have.
What @Rex said!
 
To illustrate some of what I'm saying, you can take a look at this gapless preset I've attached. On Amp 2, take a look at the weird curve I created with the Depth parameter; it's assigned to Scene Controller 1, and that Scene Controller is altering four other parameters on the same amp block, all in different ways. If you look at the Modifiers list in the Control block, you'll see there are 11 distinct modifiers in the preset, using only Scene Controllers 1, 2, and 3.

If you look at the other preset I've attached, it's the basis for the gapless preset, where I've tried to translate the settings for all 8 scenes of the original to a gapless version. I think Depth was the only curve I didn't get exactly to match the original preset, but it's otherwise a faithful gapless version of the original preset.
 

Attachments

  • Capt Hook Gapless.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 8
  • Capt Hook.syx
    48.2 KB · Views: 2
@unix-guy Channels are fantastic in so many ways, but you just don't get complete gaplessness with them, even if you switch between two identical channels.
True... But the OP wasn't asking about gapless switching so I didn't want to muddy the waters.

Also, for almost all blocks, use of channels is completely gapless. Only a few are at risk.

For multiple parameters on amps (and anything else that has a modifier, like the drives), you can assign up to 32 of them to Scene Controllers. @unix-guy has the right idea here: Although there are only four Scene Controllers: you can assign, potentially all 32 of your available modifiers at one time to a Scene Controller 1, for instance, and just change the Min and Max value for each Scene Controller.
Yes, this is what I was trying to say but you did a better job!

I didn't quote your whole post, but it's very good info for the OP and really anyone wanting to take that approach.

There have been others who've carried this "morphing" method in the past but they seem to be less active these days.
 
Long-time Fractal user (my main rig) that has also has experience with the Helix. It pains me to say I absolutely prefer the way controllers in snapshots are handled by the Helix. They are easy to see, identify, and manipulate. I feel that they are far less intuitive and accessible in Fractal. I constantly hear how much better the Helix UI is. This is one real example.
 
True... But the OP wasn't asking about gapless switching so I didn't want to muddy the waters.

Also, for almost all blocks, use of channels is completely gapless. Only a few are at risk.


Yes, this is what I was trying to say but you did a better job!

I didn't quote your whole post, but it's very good info for the OP and really anyone wanting to take that approach.

There have been others who've carried this "morphing" method in the past but they seem to be less active these days.

Thanks for that Man! It's very weird with the Channels thing; with drives I've found it to be contextual; sometimes there's no gap, sometimes there is. And I actually have a wishlist request for drives with actual Bass, Mid, and / or Treble controls (vs a single tone knob) to have modifiers available, because most do not (with the exception of the Jam Ray and the Timmys).

I think you just missed one line in the OP:

This should also help us with the switching audio gap between amps
 
There have been others who've carried this "morphing" method in the past but they seem to be less active these days.

Oh, and I'm so glad you mentioned this term! 🙂 I hadn't thought to search for that. I'm definitely interested in the approaches of others, like, e.g., @Joe Bfstplk and @mixermang's approaches talked about in that other thread. I love this pool of knowledge. The unit is so truly powerful, you can easily never finishing exploring all of what's available to you, especially if you also wanting actually to play music haha.
 
Back
Top Bottom