How about we pool knowledge and understand the Compressor block options better?

Thanks to the OP for raising this topic. I have a more basic question: how do the Fractal compressors compare in quality among the classics? Is it worth tone-chasing the classics within the Axe Fx 3, or is this where obtaining an external specialized clone/emulator makes the most sense?

Example: I've been tone chasing the Cali76 and Bogner Lyndhurst, but just can't seem to recreate the magic of a saturated Lundahl or Neve transformer. Is it a lack of Axe Fx 3 prowess on my part, or is it something else?
 
Well - if you really know that what you are missing is the saturation of the transformer then you need to look at adding a drive block to the mix. Transformer saturation is not really part of the compressor block.

I must say, that I am currently very happy with the compressor block, and my hardware compressors are collecting dust.

That said, compressors can be very difficult to match 100%, as they often incorporate both some saturation, and the attack and release curves can differ wildly from compressor to compressor and cannot easily be modeled with just attack and release controls.
 
My favourite-est ever comp was the Seymour Duncan doubleback, now rebranded as the Vise Grip. I loved the way you could blend in the dry mids. I must try this with AFX but honestly haven’t needed to with the amp models being so good.
 
That said, compressors can be very difficult to match 100%, as they often incorporate both some saturation...
The Cab block has a preamp section that can model transformer saturation. It's not quite the same thing as saturation before the amp, but it can get you in the ballpark.

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...and the attack and release curves can differ wildly from compressor to compressor and cannot easily be modeled with just attack and release controls.
If you use the Knee Type parameter, you can get pretty close to anything that exists in the physical world. The sidechain EQ should get you the rest of the way.
 
If you use the Knee Type parameter, you can get pretty close to anything that exists in the physical world. The sidechain EQ should get you the rest of the way.

I agree that you can get pretty close to almost any compressor with the tools we have available. But specifically regarding the shape of the attack and release curves, here is an example https://www.gearslutz.com/board/reviews/1330495-tokyo-dawn-labs-molotok.html - Again using attack, release and knee settings, you can get close, but is not exactly the same.
 
The Cab block has a preamp section that can model transformer saturation. It's not quite the same thing as saturation before the amp, but it can get you in the ballpark.

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If you use the Knee Type parameter, you can get pretty close to anything that exists in the physical world. The sidechain EQ should get you the rest of the way.
You'd need deep understanding of the circuit design or its detailed behavior to do that though. That's very different for most users than having models of them that you can pick from a dropdown.
 
The Cab block has a preamp section that can model transformer saturation. It's not quite the same thing as saturation before the amp, but it can get you in the ballpark.

Yes not quite the same. Also not intuitive from a UX perspective - it would be counterintuitive to tweak start-of-chain compression in the cab block.

If you use the Knee Type parameter, you can get pretty close to anything that exists in the physical world. The sidechain EQ should get you the rest of the way.

With respect, I have a hard time believing this. Of all the YouTube shootouts I've seen, compressors are still difficult to emulate "just right", even by companies dedicated to compression/EQ emulation (UAD, Antelope, Waves, ProTools, etc).

Example: check out this shootout between the Urei 1176, various hardware clones, and two plugins, where it sounds like the plugins come in last place:


If companies focused on compression emulation can't get it quite right in 2020, is it reasonable to think FAS can? Perhaps a more useful question is whether any reputed artists record in studio with FAS compression, if an alternative option is available?
 
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If companies focused on compression emulation can't get it quite right in 2020, is it reasonable to think FAS can?
Well, I'm pretty sure Line6 is more focused on Amp modeling than anything else yet they can't compete (IMO) with Fractal.

What your focus is doesn't define what your skills are or how well you apply them ;)
 
Yes not quite the same. Also not intuitive from a UX perspective - it would be counterintuitive to tweak start-of-chain compression in the cab block.



With respect, I have a hard time believing this. Of all the YouTube shootouts I've seen, compressors are still difficult to emulate "just right", even by companies dedicated to compression/EQ emulation (UAD, Antelope, Waves, ProTools, etc).

Example: check out this shootout between the Urei 1176, various hardware clones, and two plugins, where it sounds like the plugins come in last place:


If companies focused on compression emulation can't get it quite right in 2020, is it reasonable to think FAS can? Perhaps a more useful question is whether any reputed artists record in studio with FAS compression, if an alternative option is available?

I don't think you are asking the right questions. FAS has never claimed that any of their models sounds exactly like an 1176. An 1176 has other stuff going than just straight up compression. Mid push, saturation are two things that come to mind. If you want to, you have the tools in the Axe to go as deep as you want for the perfect 1176 tone, but then you would definitely need to EQ both the main signal and the sidechain - You would most likely also have to add some saturation.
The real question is, if the compression options in the Axe can take you where you need to go. For most people, I would say the answer is yes.

For the 2nd question: If you spend the money to record in a commercial studio, I guess it would be to get to use their outboard gear. If somebody asked me:"Do you want to record through a U47, a 1073, an 1176 and an LA2a, I am enough of a gear-freak to say yes regardless of what it sounds like. On the other hand, with the FAS stuff, they may already have the sound they want, when they arrive in the studio, so they did not care to try out the cool outboard gear. FWIW, I have an 1176 clone and an SSL 611Dynamics Module in my 500 rack. I never even once considered running my guitar signal through either of them for recording guitar, the Axe takes me, where I need to go. On the other hand, I don't record my microphones through my Axe.

Final point: I don't think you can emulate every compression characteristic with the Axe precisely, but it can definitely get you close enough.
 
I agree that you can get pretty close to almost any compressor with the tools we have available. But specifically regarding the shape of the attack and release curves, here is an example https://www.gearslutz.com/board/reviews/1330495-tokyo-dawn-labs-molotok.html - Again using attack, release and knee settings, you can get close, but is not exactly the same.
Interesting. The only aspect of that compressor that would be hard to reproduce is their Beta model, which appears to introduce momentary dips in the sustain and release portions of the signal. To be honest, I’m struggling to imagine a case where you would want that. It seems to be an undesirable glitch in the compressor’s behavior.
 
It's not easily visible in those graphs, but there is a difference between the alpha and sigma curves. The alpha curve starts the gain reduction immediately after the level exceeds the threshold, whereas the sigma curve has a slightly delayed reaction, but when it reacts, it comes down pretty fast
 
It's not easily visible in those graphs, but there is a difference between the alpha and sigma curves. The alpha curve starts the gain reduction immediately after the level exceeds the threshold, whereas the sigma curve has a slightly delayed reaction, but when it reacts, it comes down pretty fast
Sounds like attack, release and ratio.
 
No, it is more like the attack reacting like an exponential decay or an inverse hyperbolic sine. The latter allows the transient to come thru while still reacting quite fast.
 
FAS has never claimed that any of their models sounds exactly like an 1176. An 1176 has other stuff going than just straight up compression. Mid push, saturation are two things that come to mind. ...
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I don't think you can emulate every compression characteristic with the Axe precisely, but it can definitely get you close enough.

You've raised an important point - FAS is designed to emulate specific amps/cabs, but not specific compressors. I suppose this brings us back to the OP's post at the beginning of this thread...
 
I'm very happy with the new Studio Feedback compressor type in the Axe-Fx III.

Spent some time A/B'ing it to the Universal Audio 1176 plug-in emulation in my console to get a sort of Glynn Johns use of it for guitar (more like a limiter, but with punch) and I'm much happier with it now - it's doing what I want it to to make the guitar sound BIGGER bu not necessarily noticeably compressed - more of a volume smoothing tool. I just put that compressor type into the 200+ Bass TonePack (out now for Axe-Fx III/FM3), and also into the forthcoming firmware 14 Brit Rock Royalty #1 update instead of the analog compressor and am satisfied with the results.

For 1176, I do the attack at .283ms (yes, less than 1 ms) and release at 75ms. 4:1 ratio. Those are the specs I found for an 1176, which has a super fast attack.

Then I used a hard knee and threshold around -20db, +/- 2in either direction, I turn off the auto makeup and release etc. and then set the output usually about 3.25 db. Works more like a limiter (just does -1 to -3db gain reduction on peaks), but makes sound bigger/fatter but not real compressed sounding.

Sounds great!
 
I am surprised you did not go for the JFET for the 1176 sound.

I sometimes stack two JFETs for that huge stacked 1176 slide (Cali SlideRig) sound
 
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