IR Length

Well then... Im still on axeII. Going to have to divorce the old lady and upgrade. In any event, do you agree with my general premis? I am suggesting an approach where we ultimately have an abosulte eq curve for a particular speaker and can add and control the many parameters that are present in current irs....basically.
 
Even just seeing the EQ curve of each IR would be amazing!
Yes please! Would be great to see it on a linear or log plot (with x/y switchable between linear and log).

But i am wondering if you would get a better basic ir by averaging out some of that detail.
What is "better"? I think we all have different ears and tastes and expectations, and these also can change over time. Smoothing and/or length can reduce the distinctiveness (possibly also room reflections) for 'better' or 'worse'.
 
Though I haven't tried it, if the goal is to create reflection-free IR's, why not simply use acoustic treatment to stifle reflections?
 
Though I haven't tried it, if the goal is to create reflection-free IR's, why not simply use acoustic treatment to stifle reflections?
It takes some wildly aggressive acoustic treatments to kill the reflections.
 
Well then... Im still on axeII. Going to have to divorce the old lady and upgrade.
The Axe II has a smoothing parameter, too. It's called "De-Phase."


In any event, do you agree with my general premis? I am suggesting an approach where we ultimately have an abosulte eq curve for a particular speaker and can add and control the many parameters that are present in current irs....basically.
Which of your cab's many EQ curves will you designate as the "absolute" one? The EQ curve heard by the audience member who's looking straight down the barrel of your cab? The EQ curve that you hear standing next to your cab? The EQ curve that the mic hears when it's pointing at your speaker cone? The EQ curve your drummer hears from 90° off axis?
 
I’m still using the original V30 IR with the dyn 112 mic. I’ve purchased many IRs and none of them are better IMO.
 
The Axe II has a smoothing parameter, too. It's called "De-Phase."



Which of your cab's many EQ curves will you designate as the "absolute" one? The EQ curve heard by the audience member who's looking straight down the barrel of your cab? The EQ curve that you hear standing next to your cab? The EQ curve that the mic hears when it's pointing at your speaker cone? The EQ curve your drummer hears from 90° off axis?
The absolute one is the one that produces the sound that is inherent to the speaker alone. Many variables impact the sound a person actually hears, one of them, where ir's are concerned might be room reflections. I am suggesting that a speaker has an eq curve, period. That eq curve may be altered by the cab, room, mic, listener position, ect. We can capture some amount of that information (I am assuming we currently do) in which case you are never dealing with just a pure speaker curve like your tube amp does. A tube amp reacts with the speaker, in a cab, and what you hear depends on many factors beyond these basic items. But it starts with the essential parameters of the speaker and cab. If you capture other nuances with an ir, then use that ir as your freq curve, you are not really comparing apples to apples are you? If the amp modeling is perfect, and if the speakers reproducing the sound are perfect, your ir has caused some shift in sound because it contains parameters that are different from the actual eq curve of the speaker. Now of course nothing is perfect, but the premise seems plausible to me.

Thanks, I am/was aware of the de-phase parameter, although I had forgot about it...I'll have to revisit that.. One thing that I have been using on certain amps is the air feature.
 
Yes please! Would be great to see it on a linear or log plot (with x/y switchable between linear and log).


What is "better"? I think we all have different ears and tastes and expectations, and these also can change over time. Smoothing and/or length can reduce the distinctiveness (possibly also room reflections) for 'better' or 'worse'.
I am thinking "better" is no coloration at all. Of course that may not be what you want. But it would be the most accurate wouldn't it?
 
The absolute one is the one that produces the sound that is inherent to the speaker alone. Many variables impact the sound a person actually hears, one of them, where ir's are concerned might be room reflections. I am suggesting that a speaker has an eq curve, period. That eq curve may be altered by the cab, room, mic, listener position, ect. We can capture some amount of that information (I am assuming we currently do) in which case you are never dealing with just a pure speaker curve like your tube amp does. A tube amp reacts with the speaker, in a cab, and what you hear depends on many factors beyond these basic items. But it starts with the essential parameters of the speaker and cab. If you capture other nuances with an ir, then use that ir as your freq curve, you are not really comparing apples to apples are you? If the amp modeling is perfect, and if the speakers reproducing the sound are perfect, your ir has caused some shift in sound because it contains parameters that are different from the actual eq curve of the speaker. Now of course nothing is perfect, but the premise seems plausible to me.

I'm of the same mindset in live situations where proximity characteristics, room...etc...are somewhat limited in the preset or gone altogether. The actual rooms and venues provides these (positively or negatively).

I'm still experimenting with far-field irs, ir mixes ...etc which seems to be hit or miss in live situations.

In the recording studio...no holds barred of course.
 
I am suggesting that a speaker has an eq curve, period.

The absolute one is the one that produces the sound that is inherent to the speaker alone.

I am thinking "better" is no coloration at all. But it would be the most accurate wouldn't it?

Even if one measured the IR of a standalone speaker (say floating in a room not in a cab), a real speaker does not have a single "absolute" or "true" EQ or IR because a real speaker is not a point source. The radiated effective EQ depends on relative measurement location. This gets more complex with multiple speakers (in space or in real cabs).

It seems many guitarists using modelers want the "coloration" of speaker+cab because that approximates a real speaker in a real cab better and/or to match the sound of recorded guitars. Of course this all depends on mics, placement, room, and method.

Maybe you are thinking about speaker modeling and cab modeling to be able to put virtual speakers in virtual cabs?
 
The absolute one is the one that produces the sound that is inherent to the speaker alone.
I get where you're coming from, but think about it: which of the many EQ curves that the speaker produces — even in a reflection-free situation — is the one "inherent to the speaker?" They're all inherent to the speaker. As you move off axis, different cabs change their sound in different ways. Even if you choose one EQ curve as the starting point, you can't apply a standard formula to figure out how the sound will change at, say, 30° off axis. That's why people take multiple captures at different angles when they're shooting IRs.


A tube amp reacts with the speaker, in a cab...
That interaction is modeled in the Speaker tab of the Amp block.


Thanks, I am/was aware of the de-phase parameter, although I had forgot about it...I'll have to revisit that..
No worries. Sometimes I have to go back and remind myself of what's in there. :)
 
The reflections are slightly delayed in the real world but an ir captures that info the same point in time. these reflections could be the cab itself even when no walls or floor are present. that's what different types of cabs have different response with the same speaker. of course i'm just guessing and not an audio engineer.
I don't get why they should be delayed, speed of sound thru air doesn't change with frequency (unlike speed of light which depends on the refractive index of the medium)
 
The reflections are slightly delayed in the real world but an ir captures that info the same point in time. these reflections could be the cab itself even when no walls or floor are present. that's what different types of cabs have different response with the same speaker. of course i'm just guessing and not an audio engineer.
Air is not a dispersive medium at audio frequencies. The velocity is not a function of frequency.
 
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