The "Modelers Don't Clean Up with the Volume Knob" Myth

Crazy thought: I wonder if anyone has ever used a small guitar mounted speaker to boost that gain/feedback loop, like an extreme version of bringing your guitar close to a speaker to induce more vibration/feedback.

If you could get the physics working OK, find a way to get signal and power to it and control its volume with an expression pedal...instant Santana! LOL.
I have a design for that but haven't had time to build it. You don't need a speaker, just a motor.
 
To me, the Axe-Fx III responds just like a real amp tone-wise when I roll the guitar's volume knob down (and I do that a good bit to recreate various tones) - I can't tell the difference or sense any deficiency whatsoever. Especially if I 'm playing loud and near a speaker -- reacts like an amp to me. Cliff's top-level explanation above of why some people may PERCEIVE a difference (that isn't really there) makes sense to me, even if I can't begin to understand the math and equations.

I find all this somewhat analogous to people who dial in a tone at bedroom level and think it sounds great, then turn that preset up loaud at a gig and find it sound horrible. #fletchermunsoneffect #wheredidmytonego #itsallaboutthemidsbaby
 
Crazy thought: I wonder if anyone has ever used a small guitar mounted speaker to boost that gain/feedback loop, like an extreme version of bringing your guitar close to a speaker to induce more vibration/feedback.

If you could get the physics working OK, find a way to get signal and power to it and control its volume with an expression pedal...instant Santana! LOL.
There is this......haven’t got it to work great .....
 

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There is this......haven’t got it to work great .....
Interesting product, but magnetic only and looks tricky to get right as you say.

Getting physics working OK likely involves replicating multi-spectrum waves/vibrations impacting both strings and wood. Maybe it's a combo like Cliff's motor concept plus a speaker air wave impact, both user-controllable across a wide "imact/volume" range -- don't know, but worth exploring given the growing market of modeler players in low-volume environments.
 
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The Axe III is the only guitar related thing I own (actually apart from a King of Tone pedal and one super Strat) made after 1965, all my guitars are vintage.

All sound just like the should and most importantly the tone and volume controls (which seem to have much more effect on older instruments) function just as they should and I expect them to).

I agree on the earlier modelling stuff (POD etc), there was much missing, I couldn’t tell sometimes if I had my strat or Les Paul plugged in.

In my experience the Helix slightly still has this if you’re not careful with the controls you can get too much compression and gain in the signal path and you lose something.

Not with Fractal - I couldn’t be happier with the response
 
... a small guitar mounted speaker to boost that gain/feedback loop.
I have a design for that but haven't had time to build it. You don't need a speaker, just a motor.

Cool stuff! Just reading the thread today before getting to your posts thinking the same thing (tho Cliff probably got the idea years ago). A motor only would transfer the vibrations without creating a large acoustic signal. Probably would need some EQ capability, like GEQ/PEQ to fine tune it (or otherwise route it through the AFX;). Tie it into the volume knob somehow (or a second "feedback" knob or EP) for fun play time without blowing out your ears.
 
Quite the bash-fest going on over at TGP. For starters, the name John Mayer brings out the TROLLS, and then this threads argument on whether or not the volume knob issue is real. It's amazing how much animosity there still is with modeler vs analog, and anything John Mayer!

Personally, call me a rube, I never or more accurately hardly ever roll my volume back.

TGP is a silly place. I wouldn't place much stock on anything that gets discussed there. We used to quote things for a laugh from TGP on DIY pedal forums, I see no reason to change this here on the fractal forum.
 
Crazy thought: I wonder if anyone has ever used a small guitar mounted speaker to boost that gain/feedback loop, like an extreme version of bringing your guitar close to a speaker to induce more vibration/feedback.

If you could get the physics working OK, find a way to get signal and power to it and control its volume with an expression pedal...instant Santana! LOL.

I did that, with one of these USB small speakers that has a line input. I used a graphic EQ to boost the mids.

I even made a strap with velcro, to attach it to the rear plate of the guitar.

Feedback forever, more than Gary Moore, and at bedroom volume

RG8550-Blue-Tooth.jpg
 
I did that, with one of these USB small speakers that has a line input. I used a graphic EQ to boost the mids.

I even made a strap with velcro, to attach it to the rear plate of the guitar.

Feedback forever, more than Gary Moore, and at bedroom volume

RG8550-Blue-Tooth.jpg
Cool. My idea was a clamp assembly with a speaker motor.
 
Let the joint product development begin!

Shrink footprint, mount inside, set up separate wireless and feed it with expression pedal controlled axe-fx output (volume and sweepable mid). If you could make a $300 axe with dead wood in a bedroom sing like a $3k axe in front of a cranked stack in concert, players will buy that all day long.

Cool. My idea was a clamp assembly with a speaker motor.

I did that, with one of these USB small speakers that has a line input. I used a graphic EQ to boost the mids.

I even made a strap with velcro, to attach it to the rear plate of the guitar.

Feedback forever, more than Gary Moore, and at bedroom volume

RG8550-Blue-Tooth.jpg

Crazy thought: I wonder if anyone has ever used a small guitar mounted speaker to boost that gain/feedback loop, like an extreme version of bringing your guitar close to a speaker to induce more vibration/feedback.

If you could get the physics working OK, find a way to get signal and power to it and control its volume with an expression pedal...instant Santana! LOL.
 
Here's a sample preset demonstrating closed-loop feedback.

It's not quite the same as feeding back into the guitar but it illustrates the gain enhancement that happens. The Delay block simulates being roughly 20 feet away from the speaker. The Filter block simulates the absorption coefficient of the guitar.

If you turn up the return level it will eventually go unstable and oscillate but you can't control it by muting the strings or moving as you would when the feedback is into the guitar.

It actually sounds pretty cool. Definitely adds some liveliness.
 

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