"Digital modelers just don't cut through"

Morbid

Morbid

Inspired
What's your opinion on statements like this?

I've heard a few different people say it, but most recently was Jim Root of Slipknot. To further elaborate on his statement, he basically went on to say that when up against tube amps, even if you crank the hell out of the mids, digital modelers just get lost.

I've experienced this myself with the XL+, but I always attribute it to my lack of control in that particular environment (hard to fix something on the fly when there is no FOH guy).

What are your thoughts on the subject, and if you've experienced this yourself, what did you do to fix it?
 
Of course said tube amps end up running through a digital mixing console and outboard processing, before being delivered to the FOH system, which again likely has digital time alignment, crossovers et al., applied so in most any performance the audience is in fact hearing a digital signal.....

So can't really see the logic of the tube snobs on this one......

Probably just tone deaf guys who can't hear themselves on stage anymore unless they have a V30 loaded 4x12 cab hitting them lol
 
lqdsnddist said:
Of course said tube amps end up running through a digital mixing console and outboard processing, before being delivered to the FOH system, which again likely has digital time alignment, crossovers et al., applied so in most any performance the audience is in fact hearing a digital signal.....
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In this case, I believe he was also referring to backstage practice/warmup sessions with the other members. So just in room sound as opposed to mic'd or fed.
 
Morbid said:
In this case, I believe he was also referring to backstage practice/warmup sessions with the other members. So just in room sound as opposed to mic'd or fed.
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Which again equates to how someone with normal hearing might think an amp/cab is ice-pick city and a guy with lots of high end hearing loss might still think it sounds like there is a blanket over the cab until he cranks the treble and gets right on axis with it.
 
I agree with the statements, I disagreed with Jim root when he said that the Kemper couldn't play near a tube amp.
If it's an amp in the room or monitoring thing, there is no use debating.
If it's a foh or any mic'ed sound thing, that's always the same hardware+setup+ir+person's hearing because modellers sounds like the real thing because that's their purpose.

Reminds me of a friend that told me he cannot play without an amp as monitor instead of using the wedge, because the sound is warmer and he feels the air moving, to me it's overkill and depending of the venue it can be quite useless luxury.

I think getting used to an amp in the room sound is a disadvantage for a gigging musician, compared to be used to mixed and monitoring sounds.
 
His statement may be based on his experience, and whatever digital product he was hearing/trying.

Does the Fractal Axe platform have a lack of mids or cut - absolutely not.
Does the Line6 POD platform have a lack of cut - IMO, yes.
So it all depends on what product you're using.
Some tube amps also sound like a pile of garbage, so.....

Too broad of a statement to take seriously (and I'm a huge Slipknot/Root fan)
 
I think it’s because we tend to create presets that give us a processed sound, and we usually do this in private. We end up with delays and reverbs etc that sound spectacular and full in isolation, but tend to get lost in a band setting. Also, the dispersion characteristics of a 4x12 or 2x12 etc can be pretty damn confronting when standing in front of it, wile a frfr is usually not as directional in the highs and high mids.
Thanks
Pauly
 
I don’t agree,BUT I do think with all digital or modelling platforms you can introduce much more compression much easier than with a tube amp, and if you’re not prepared to learn how to use it.......
 
Total nonsense.

That ‘mentality’ comes from those that believe tubes are better in every way... period. And I’ve always liked tube amps.

My IIXL+ actually cuts through the mix better than the other guitarist in my Def Leppard tribute band... live recordings proof it all the time. And he uses Marshall’s (which I always loved, and still do)

Bottom line, to me... it’s how you shape your tone to sit in the mix.
 
IMHO, it's usually a case of not setting up patches wisely for live play. LESS IS MORE/MORE IS LESS live. The more gain/distortion & effects one uses, the less the sound will cut through. The same issue can apply to anyone with a large analog pedalboard too. A lot of the stock presets in the Axe/Fx, just as in any guitar Fx device being sold, are often created to catch the players ear when demoing the unit playing solo. If used with a band live w/o tailoring, many of them will sound awful.
 
pauly said:
I think it’s because we tend to create presets that give us a processed sound, and we usually do this in private. We end up with delays and reverbs etc that sound spectacular and full in isolation, but tend to get lost in a band setting. Also, the dispersion characteristics of a 4x12 or 2x12 etc can be pretty damn confronting when standing in front of it, wile a frfr is usually not as directional in the highs and high mids.
Thanks
Pauly
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My presets for jamming at home to recorded media are often as described above, while my live presets are as simple as the tube amp rigs I've used through the years (amp/cab with a few select pedals - boost, drive, delay, maybe a MXR Phase 45), using the guitars volume pot far more often than pedals/effects.

That's the beauty of good digital modeling - it need not be any more complicated than a simple analog rig. It can be as simple or as complicated as the player desires.
 
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